For both some pics of plans or at least the book and a second plane / first kit take a look at the Venture .60. Bruce Tharpe (BTE Models) is the one that designed the 4*. He improved a few things, removed some bad habits and re-did the 4* calling it the V60.

[link=http://www.btemodels.com/venture.html]BTE Engineering[/link]

[link=http://www.venture60.com/]V60 Fan site[/link]

[link=http://webpages.charter.net/rcfu/KitReviews/BTVenture.html]V60 review[/link]

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Venture_60_Construction/m_1242455/tm.htm]RCU Review / Build Pics[/link]

Also, take a look at the bottom of the V60 page, there are ALLOT more links and the downloadable manual. Great plane man. I'm getting one soon!

Rick