ORIGINAL: Jim Branaum
DavidR,
What you seem to be saying is that no one EXCEPT a jet guy could possibly write a rule for the turbine folks. I might be able to accept that IF the turbine community had done any sort of reasonable job enforcing the rules THEY already wrote. Unfortunately they have done a terrible job of writing and enforcing the rules, AS YOU ALREADY ADMIT! So why are you insisting on busting the chops of everyone else in the AMA over YOUR failure? Wouldn't it be much more productive to loudly and publicly admit that set of rules/ideas didn't work and suggest other solutions?
I have yet to see a single suggestion except for the AMA EC to go away and leave the turbine guys alone. I am beginning to think that if we went to the FAI weight limits (around 34 pounds IIRC) and required all sanctioned turbine events to be at APPROVED TURBINE fields (by the AMA and to a standard - no houses or trees within a 1/4 or 1/2 mile circle or so), I might begin to be comfortable enough to try to sell that approach. However, it seems that you guys want more fuel (read that as WEIGHT). So instead of telling me how much I don't know, WRITE SOME EFFECTIVE RULES TO GOVERN TURBINE OPERATIONS THAT YOU WILL ENFORCE! Actually, that is what I thought the TRC (with JPO guys) DID. So what is the problem if the EC wants to look over what appears to be conflicting information? That IS what has fired this mess up.
Kevin G,
Sorry, but I don't have to go to any event where foks throw away the AMA Safety Code as the first order of business and then brag about it in public to know there is a problem with SAFETY. I have seen NO real problems with most of the turbine operations or people as I said that before, so please tell me why I MUST attend an event where the participants yell at me about how I know nothing because I don't fly turbines? Right Tom? Sorry, but that is not a way to sell your ideas to many.
Jim,
Where in the hell did you come up with this notion that EVERYBODY in the jet community is breaking all of these various rules??? You say by jet jockies' own admissions....Maybe a few have bent the rules a little, however, I don't see these rules being broken flagrantly...Especially rules that REALLY offer some safety value!!! Those of us that DO know exactly what goes on are laughing and shaking our heads is disbelief that you can be so hard headed, and ignorant!!! I, as well as others, are HIGHLY offended by you accusations----Accusations that you make with NO MERIT due to have never attended a jet rally. Bud...This puts you smack dab in the liar category in my book. All of the jet rallies that I've attended have been run with military precision----
At the risk of receiving a flame from you, I'll give you an example of a rule that has been broken by a few as the rule is GROSSLY outdated and needs to be revised!!! For example: The recommended thrust for a Composite ARF EuroSport is 120-160 Newtons. (Approx. 27-35 lbs) The EuroSport weighs about 22-23 lbs dry. So, under the .9:1 TWR rule I must do one of two things....Turn the thrust down or use a speed limiter. The SPIRIT of the rule was to curb speed. This works well for a clean airframe such as a BVM Bandit, but is terrible for a EuroSport. Why??? Because the EuroSport won't do 200 MPH if dropped from a cliff with EITHER engine due to the draggy airframe. This airframe NEEDS this thrust due to it's inherent drag, so, guys are leaving the engines at their full rated thrust. A P-120 (27 lb of thrust) powered EuroSport will do about 145-150 MPH tops.
So I ask you Jim--What's wrong with guys that have jets like the EuroSport flying with more than a .9:1 thrust to weight ratio???? These guys are not being irresponsible as there are zero safety concerns by doing this on this type of model. It's all about common sense and using your head. When the .9:1 ratio rule was implemented no one could foresee how the jets have evolved. Bigger, yes, but faster---NO!
Since you won't attend a jet rally I'll include this link to a video of a EuroSport in flight. As you can see, the trend in jet flying is to see how maneuverable their jet can be...NOT to go mach two with their hair on fire.
EuroSport Video:
http://www.lov2flyrc.com/video/eurohs.wmv
Kevin