JR, it really is not as bad as all of that. DB seems very well adjusted to all of the outcry, in his own words, it is because we are all so passionate about this hobby.....he sees that as very important. I was impressed with the attitude.

As for me, I am sure that there are some that do not agree with what I have said, but I am also sure that those who know me know I am passionate too, and am just trying to keep what we have. Perhaps because I am closer to the business side of the hobby, I might be a bit more keenly aware of how important the AMA is to what we are doing, there is just no viable alternative now, nor in my opinion, in the future.

As to why more people aren't calling, I do not know, maybe RCU is not as big as we think, cause at my field probabaly 3/4 of the jet pilots do not even know any of this TRC stuff is going on in the first place! Ingorance is bliss!

If they are satisfied with THOSE answers, that is THEIR business. Yep, I do do it differently.

In analogy, if ex-Enron employee, I.R. Broke, called Andrew Fastow and asked for several hundred thousand $$ to reestablish I.R.'s pension account, since Andrew reputedly stole 60 million, and his punishment appears to be a 10 mill. fine plus some time, do you think I.R. should be satisfied with the resounding "NO!"?
If I.R. is happy, that is I.R.'s business. I would not be; that is why I have retained a group to fight for my benefits from the now bankrupt United Airlines. I may lose more than I gain, however I don't hold a phone to my ears, place thumb in mouth, curl up in fetal position and mumble, "Oh so nice, Oh so nice."

As it has been said, "You can fool all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but NOT all the people all the time." I was fooled before. JR, it seems you are now in the "some of the people" group.

Personally, YES, I am guilty of being interested ONLY in the results of actions, the AMA hierarchy's admitted thoughts as they may result in future actions, and analysis of the possibilities of those thoughts/actions as I relate them to over thirty(30) years of being involved in AMA politics and business, over 40 years as an ACTIVE CD, and 50 years + as a member. My experience/s dictate to me that whatever the AMA hierarchy SAYS and that which they DO are at times very much TWO entirely DIFFERENT things.

Some 40 years ago when I dropped bombs, my problems regarding getting to and finding the target were not of importance. The only important item was, "Did you hit the target?"
When an airline pilot, I might work my butt off finding smooth air, fighting air traffic controllers while detouring around thunderstorms, etc., but then go in and make a BUMP landing and I was probably considered the worst pilot in the world.
No matter the hanging chad, ONLY FINAL RESULTS MATTER, NOTHING ELSE. [>:]

Sorry David,
I disagree, but only slightly. We (EVERYONE in the AMA) make errors, it is part of being human. I suspect that is one of several reasons you did not get anymore notice than anyone else in the world (and that includes the AMA and the EC) that there was a NEED for a seminar to insure that communications between the SIG and the EC were clear.

No, you don't HAVE to drop everything, but you might consider a slightly friendlier and less aggressive approach to the problem. I am astounded that, to date, NOBODY from the TRC or JPO has indicated they well be there. It is beginning to sound like there are no turbine folks on the west coast who care. Odd, but that sure is what appears to be being said by folks absence. I bet that less than 10 people TOTAL show up for both seminars, what do you think?

Maybe instead of last minute knee jerk reactions the AMA EC is just supposed to do whatever it is they wish, without discussion with the membership. That seems to be the only alternative your comments have suggested. Kind of hard for AMA folks to answer questions that are not asked and even more difficult to insure needs are met when the membership remains silent. AFAIK there is no person in the AMA who passed Mind Reading 101. I respectfully suggest you tone it down several notches or expect to have your interpretations of what is or is not needed listened to sometime in the next decade, maybe.

But that is YOUR choice.

JB

Could it be that they decided not to post here to avoid a direct attack from you?

The following is FYI

So why are you still wasting your time with the affairs of this group?


Regards

Ben
AMA 9119

Jim,

It just makes sense---How can you regulate a group when the man (or men) in charge knows very little or nothing about the technicalities concerning that group and refuses expert opinion??? In business, a good manager will gather information from experts in their respective fields...It doesn't matter that the manager knows little about the subject. What does matter is that accurate information be exposed and an EDUCATED decision is made based on FACTS....Educated and facts being the key words here.

I just don't see this happening in this case.[:@] I believe that the JPO and the TRC has been left out of the loop in some aspects concerning the recent events and rule making.


Jim, those of us that are experts in this facet of the hobby have displayed our facts on the table for you to see. I suppose that you dismiss what we have to say due to your opinion that there is a conflict of interest on our behalf. You don't fly jets and haven't even been to a jet rally....I don't believe that no one can make rules that they have not participated in....That is not the issue. See my example as written above. My issue with you is that you have made a lot of noise, voicing your opinion based on being a spectator but acting as though you are an active participant. Even as a spectator you fall well short....You need to go to a couple of jet rallies to really get a feel for what we as jet pilots are trying to convey to you.

Kevin

Ben,
You approve of folks attacking EC members and other modelers by the mere fact of your post that ignored previous hostile remarks by jet guys. You also seem to cherry pick sentences out of context of the thread. I guess it is alright when you do it, isn't it?

Kevin,
You have made your point clear, no one who will not bow to your demands is worthwhile or could possibly have a brain and be willing to use it constructively. How do congress critters possibly make laws about retirement, unemployment, military pay, defense procurement since they are not specialists in those fields? That is exactly the thesis you put forward and yet we have laws IN place created by folks with no education in those fields. Want to rethink your bad position or throw more aggressive words out in your attempt to pick a fight? Hint: Don't bother answering, the location of your head is obvious.

--

I truly hope the turbine folks get their just deserts rather than the demands I have seen in this forum. Instead of you folks pounding on my approach, lets turn the tables around and do this another much more interesting way. Pray tell why I should NOT stand against you and your bad attitudes and convince me to change my opinion. This is what the EC members must sell to the general membership and someone had better get their act together and give them the tools. Practice on me if you must but first let me give you a quick clue, getting hostile in action or words insures you will LOSE! Have at it and good luck because the time to start discussing alternative approaches with people is here.

Jim,

It seems you can't keep from bashing at those of us are just trying to discuss our viewpoints. You seem to be looking to pick a fight rambling on saying the same things with nothing to say.

Jim, Jim, Jim.....It's also obvious that you need to take a reading comprehension course---Or two!!! Re-read the first paragraph in my last post!!![&:] I honestly think that you can't see the forest for the trees............

If I were a congressman and knew little about retirement, unemployment, military pay, or defense procurement...I WOULD CONSULT A SPECIALIST IN THEIR RESPECTIVE FIELDS as I thought I made crystal clear in my last post.....Now, who really had their head in a precarious location?!?!?!?

You hope we get out just deserts???? How arrogant of you to think that you are the voice of the EC. If you don't recall---The new rules did pass by an 8-3 margin!!! I guess you are the voice for my EC representative....Jim McNeil.

Kevin

I have NOT been bashing, however I cannot say the same for some of the turbine guys. In fact they have managed to make me happy enough to be more interested in seeing their ox gored than not due to their personal attacks. The EC voted to put those rules in abeyance based on the clear need for more information. Some of the turbine folks have gone the extra mile to attack members of the EC, Dave Brown, and anyone who bothered to express any opinion that was not in lock step with their predetermined ideas.

Since you guys have decided that I have nothing to say, I will just write to EC members with my suggestions and the researched facts and links to support my position rather than prattle on telling them how wrong they are by attempting to manage a difficult area of the hobby. They DID go to the EXPERTS two different times.

G'Day Mates!

And......ignored them both times.

Jim,

Finally taking your ball and going home, eh??? Be sure to include in your letter how you've never once been to a jet rally and that the number of turbine aircraft that you've seen fly in your lifetime you could count on your fingers---Maybe you could include your toes too??? Why won't you stop and listen to what we are saying to you instead of taking offense??

When you send your links and include mine I'm sure that whomever you send them to will understand the point of my posts concerning the EuroSport and other jets like it.....That there are some models that do not need speed limiters due to the draggyness of the airframe. Even overpowered at 1.5:1 they still won't acheive 200 MPH... After all---Speed limits is the topic of this thread. By the way, the manufacturer of the EuroSport recommends engines of a minimum of 27lbs of thrust for their plane. Underpowering it makes it a hazard to fly---As does any model for that matter.

Kevin

kev, and dave, do you guys really enjoy argueing with a stop sign?

Mongo,

I don't see a stop sign?!?!?!? Everything is green on my screen....

Kevin

you missed the humorous refrence.
argueing with JB is like argueing with a stop sign.

Mongo,

LOL!!!

Yeah, I should have stopped arguing in this thread a long time ago. My father gave me some good advice that I should have taken...He told me: "Never argue with an idiot----As those watching and listening eventually won't be able to tell the difference between the two..."

Kevin

Well...It seems that the majority do not want absolute speed limits... During the course of this thread a lot was expounded on but little else learned...One reasonable method to insure pilot proficiency was asserted...needs a little polishing IMHO... but other than that this thread has failed to produce any tangible benefits… so therefore since I started this mess I ask that this thread be locked and let it go to the bottom...I believe it has run its course. BTW as for as a follow up poll... I really don't believe that any subject in this forum can ever be explored in a manner that is conducive to a positive outcome or resolution.

I think I will bow out also.

Need not waste more time here trying to get the egos here to work for a synergy that might otherwise possible.

Please close thread.