That BILL is a pretty sharp guy when he lays off the SKOTCH. I have a more simplistic, "NEANDERTHAL type" understanding of what's going on, I think the phrase,"cut and try" was coined by a curious modeler. The LHS just raised the price of the MAS twin pack of 6-3 and 6-4 to $3.00, but they were $1.80 for ages around here. I haven't seen a NORVEL AME respond to anything under a 4.2-4 on my deltas, but it sure is a great little trick to make them run with the big dogs..