ORIGINAL: grotto2
Ryan-
Do you have any more info on this video? I'll bet some of us would like to take a look at it.
-Ron
Ron, I tried to find the link on the internet, but that ended up fruitless. I thought that maybe I had downloaded it to my hard drive, but I wasn't that smart. It was a Wren turboprop on a composite Turbo Raven. The footage was shot in Germany at an airshow. Maybe someone else that sees this knows what I am talking about and provide the link.
ORIGINAL: 8178
This is really an interesting subject because the outcome impacts the future of pattern acrobatics and I should be quiet, but just one more thought. From what I see there is something that I will call the “fun factor”. The higher the “fun factor” the more money people are willing to spend on their RC aircraft. Think about the relative cost of the high speed pattern ships of the late 80s with expensive pump and piped engines (that didn’t last very long at the high RPMs so you need a bunch of them), retracts, fiberglass kits and the cost of the old pattern ships of the 70s. It was a very big jump in cost but everyone wanted one, cost didn’t matter and they were having a blast flying pattern. That type of flying seemed to have very wide appeal and attracted a lot of flyers.
The turbine flyers have no problem spending big dollars to just get a little old turbine trainer. I expect it is the high “fun factor” at work again.
The cost of 2M ships are more than the 80s and 90s rocket ships but when you consider the total cost it shouldn’t be the factor that would cause the AMA pattern community to shrink. If you can agree on the cost and “fun factor” concept, is it possible that AMA pattern does not have the wide appeal that it once had because the “fun factor’ is being impacted by something? Or possibly a perceived low “fun factor” by potential new flyers?
You're right, the fun factor has been impacted by something. Would you say that elitism among the pattern community started causing a decline in the membership, and an increase in price tags? If so, this has held true for a good while now. Your average pilot probably has many mis conceptions about what pattern is. They see all the guys in F3A that are flying high dollar Euro designs, with either very expensive YS's (normally with a few backups), or almost prohibitively expensive electric setups. With Futaba now out with the 14MZ there's another 2 grand towards the setup. What they don't see however are some of the guys in the lower classes. Sure, there are guys down in the ranks that fly more top-dollar planes, but I've seen quite a few that had some age on either the airplane itself or the design. And since pattern is not only governed (in the states anyway) by the AMA, but also by the FAI. So there are alot of rules involved, along with alot of money getting shelled out. People take those numbers and see that they can get a pretty good sized 3D plane, where it's really anything goes. Now with the advent of foamys, people can do the same for even less. $400 compared to $4000, there's a significant difference for the price of fun there.
Also from what I've read, you are active in the SPA, aren't you? How is the membership among them, since that is a helluva lot cheaper version of pattern? Is it growing, staying steady, or what? I would think that they would have a healthy following, especially among the people who used to fly pattern and quit. They can buy some of the same planes and better equipment to put in them for cheaper than it would have cost "back in the day". With the way the CPI works, and the general economic growth within the US, It's probably cheaper to fly SPA type pattern now than it was back when it WAS pattern. How has the promotion of the SPA worked out? I can see your point very clearly about how that type of pattern is attractive. People love speed. Those planes flew faster, were sleeker, and are less costly. They are more easily transportable to boot. If people knew about the SPA, wouldn't you say that it could become as popular as it was back in its heyday?
But like I said earlier, pick up a copy of 3D flyer, all of the "big names" are leaking out about how important some form of disciplined flying is to their flying skills. This might only increase IMAC's membership, since GS is what 3D flyers fly. Even though Artistic Aerobatics are officially sanctioned by the FAI, there aren't any contests. And people would complain they needed two planes to be competitive or to even enjoy both.
One last thing 8178, I am seeing your viewpoint more and more, as I think about it and write about it. I can see why you say that was the zenith of pattern competition and I am actually beginning to think that way myself. It has everything that modern day pattern is trying to achieve-low cost and high participation. [X(]
ORIGINAL: blwblw
heh heh, that's a good one. I agree with your sentiments.
I don't see why you couldn't fly pattern with the right plane and a small turbine. They don't have to fly fast. I followed a link from RCU to a video of a Cirrus with something like a 27' wingspan and a turbine strapped on top. It wasn't the brightest idea, but it flew well enough at slow speeds. Lots of wing flex! The guy decided to do a loop with the obvious outcome....but it was a Cirrus after all and not a jet.
The only thing that would pose a problem (other than plunking down $5500 for an engine) would be the weight limit. Even small turbines are thirsty, so the mass of fuel along with all the plumbing for it would add significant weight, even to the lightest planes around. But think about it- it would be completely self contained, nothing really to bring to the flightline except the fuel and a fire extinguisher. No starter, glow driver, nothing like that. Of course electrics have that beat- all you need is the airplane, transmitter and you. It would definitely have the coolness factor.