Yep, Winchester.

One good thing, so impressed with the site they have there, have applied to join the club. Only problem is they have a waiting list [](I'm obviously not the only one impressed by the site).

So its all your fault Angus, you talked me into it

Looking at the list, the next comp I can make is New Market at the end of June. Then there is Leicester and Barkston Heath in July. Those three are basically every other weekend! You coming to any of them or are they too far?

I only do the Centralised events Sprink. Had one two weeks ago, next is at Ashbourne in 2 weeks and the 3rd is at RAF Wittering again, first Sunday in June. After that its the two day team trial on the last weekend in July (Wittering).

Worked out we will be driving 3000 miles just to go to those team trials so really not up for doing anything else cos we will be driving to France in August as well. Just gets a bit much.

Angus

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Also from what I've read, you are active in the SPA, aren't you? How is the membership among them, since that is a helluva lot cheaper version of pattern? Is it growing, staying steady, or what? I would think that they would have a healthy following, especially among the people who used to fly pattern and quit. They can buy some of the same planes and better equipment to put in them for cheaper than it would have cost "back in the day". With the way the CPI works, and the general economic growth within the US, It's probably cheaper to fly SPA type pattern now than it was back when it WAS pattern. How has the promotion of the SPA worked out? I can see your point very clearly about how that type of pattern is attractive. People love speed. Those planes flew faster, were sleeker, and are less costly. They are more easily transportable to boot. If people knew about the SPA, wouldn't you say that it could become as popular as it was back in its heyday?

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The SPA is doing very well and continues to grow. I’m not sure how many members we have now, but the members I’ve met are a good group of people. I think it’s mostly getting the word out that there is a SPA and they are having a lot of fun flying pattern. I found it interesting that some of the SPA flyers are young folk and SPA was their first choice for pattern, but there are a lot of pattern flyers in the group that were very active in the 70, 80, and 90s and some that also fly 2M AMA.

The SPA is mostly focused on 1965 to 1975 pattern aircraft. Apparently the pre 1965 group that must run non-Schnuerle side exhaust engines doesn’t have much activity. Some of the flying sites have had noise problems so SPA allowed 91 FS engines for noise reduction. This created a challenge in that the designs had to be modified some to get the aircraft to balance with the increased weight of the FSs. Air frame modifications are hard to monitor. I like the group simply because of the work they are doing to keep the pattern going with the pre 1975 airships. I have two of my pattern designs on the SPA pre 1975 approved list and it’s nice to know there are still people that remember them and enjoy them. Kind of elevates them from just being another plan number on a RC magazine website.

One area that the SPA has not been able to address, is all the flyers that love the rocket ships of the 80s, with pumped and piped engines and retracts. It is a pretty big undertaking to run the pre 1975 events and if you added the 80s it would be overwhelming. I like all of the pattern ships but I think it is good that they stay focused. The fun factor is very high and the events are relaxed and well run. The cost is less than 2M stuff but most flyers build kits or build from plans. ARFs are pretty limited for SPA but there are a few. I think it is more of the “fun factor� driving the successes than it is lower cost.

All the SPA info can be found on their website at http://www.seniorpattern.com/

The SPA had an event at our field last year, and will have the Masters here this year. I was impressed by the laid back attitude during competition. Everyone seemed genuinely friendly and helpful to each other. The competition was exciting to watch both days. I found the SPA members to be exceptionally friendly to have at the field. I'm not sure if I'll join this year as my planes are not SPA legal, and it will be next year before I have anything built to compete with. Several members are building the new Taurus kits for the SPA. There are a lot of planes to choose from.

I don't think turbines are off subject at all. That is a bit narrow minded to say. It may be too soon to have a turbine flying decent pattern work, but definately not impossible. Turbine prices are coming down. I think a lot of people misunderstand what turbines really do. I flew full scale turbines for years and they aren't just zoom and boom engines. You could do some decent maneuvers with the right little turbine and the right airframe if you understood the strengths and weaknesses....like any 2 or 4 stroke engines have. It seems to me that a turbine would fit somewhere between 2 and 4 strokes with torque and spool up issues. Also, no P factors. Maybe stall turns would be tricky.....

Fuel would be an issue. The bigger turbines drink around 10 oz a minute from what I've read. I guess that part of the idea needs some work....

I just recently aquired my first pattern type model. I've been flying for a few years ( off and on since 1959 ) I find that most " sport " kits and ARF
models are just not ( in my opinion) up to snuff. My expectations of models may be different than most, consequently, I design and build pretty much 100 percent of my models. I fly a lot of scale models...a couple 3D models and now am going to try pattern.
The biggest problem has been finding someone who hasn't made the decision for me that electric does not have enough power, and that even if it did, it would be horribly expensive. The fact is..e power is powerful enough, and is not expensive. it's not better, and I'm not on a crusade to prove it is.
I purchased a Venus as a starter model, and will fly it this season to see if I enjoy this type of flying, and then likely draw up plans and scratch one around a " 90 " size. I have come to the opinion that in the part of the country I live in, pattern fliers generally are not too receptive to new people getting into their " club" , and are not very forthcoming with information. Could this be a possible reason that there aren't very many entrants at most pattern contests? My Venus weighs 5 pounds, and I swing a 15X10 prop at a maximum of 7500rpm. it is or seems to be a little pitch sensitive, and is balanced at the recommended spot. I'm wondering if this is the nature of the beast. I should have discovered this forum a long time ago. It looks like information flows freely back and forth with no built in predjudices about power systems. just information on flying characteristics of various models. I must say that The Venus is the best flying ARF I have had opportunity to fly.....so far, and will be one of the models flown at the Chilliwack fly in this May.

Flew the Venus today again...unfortunately, it was it's last flight...I was in the middle of a flight, when it went out of control......What happened was one of the not so regular fliers uses the same channel as I do......he told his 6 year old to go put his pin on the board..the young fellow took my pin off and put his dad's up in it's place.
Dad turned on, and proceeded to taxi out. .....End of Venus......kind of spoiled my day.

eflier,

Sorry to hear of your loss of the plane. Did the father make an attempt to settle things with you? Thanks for the electric power update and info.

of course not ...he thinks it's my fault for being in the air when his pin was on the board....the fact that mine was removed so his could be put up makes no difference as far as he's concerned....so.......
since I own the field he flies at, and I'm p----d off at his attitude, I was actually considering banning him from the field for the summer, but I'm also his area representative for M.A.A.C. so I thought I'd better be not quite so harsh. Maybe he now knows the consequences of turning on when someone else is on the same channel and he will not send his child to take care of his responsibilities at the frequency board, and it will save someone else the aggravation of this happening to them.
I guess I'd better order another Venus, or my pattern type flying will be over for the season....I'll have to fly my scale models :-)

That sucks man. Not even an apology!!? If you don't get any compensation then id definitely ban him. He was totally in the wrong and probably knows it and just doesn't want to admit his failings.

Angus

That is a true crime to all things male. If he's not a regular flyer it should be HIS responsibility to check other freqs before flying. He more likely doesn't wana explain to the 6 year old why that big box that arrived in the mail isn't gona be seen again. I started at 7 and near made a few screw-ups like that, but with my dad there's NO WAY I'd bet let loose on the pegs by myself.

If no compensation or apology is likely I think you would be totally justified in removing the guys flying priveledges at your field. his total lack of resposibility in sending a six year old to put his marker on the board is beyond comprehension, its not the kids fault, daddy told him to do it, send him packing permanantly you dont need that sort of irresponsible person at your field.

Ban the kid... seriously, If I owned the field I'd simply restrict flying on one or two channels for the owners use EXCLUSIVELY. Anyone else caught flying on those frequencies... banished forever or whatever you deem appropriate, I guess that's up to you.
Getting shot down sucks - there are enough other reasons for crashes without being 'helped' by other fliers!!

What gets me is if that guy knew you were on the same frequency that he flys on, and he saw you flying, what crack was he smoking when he thought it was ok to turn on his transmitter.
Without a doubt, that was his error. He should have put his own pin on the board. Id revoke his flying privileges. Then I'd tell him when he learns to put his own pin up on the board he can come back.

Back to the topic of this thread....

I recently got into the electric stuff. Most of the electric indoor planes are 3D oriented. I thought they all flew like crap. So eventually I found a indoor pattern plane. The Ikarus F3A. I was so pleased. It flew just like a big glow pattern plane. Smooth and precise. This was until I tried 3D with it. Then I quickly found out that the sport planes like the Extra and Edge were FAR better 3D planes than my F3A. So now I have both. F3A for flying smooth precision aerobatics, and a SuperStar for flying edgy snappy 3D stuff.

That one fellow was right. If you hand a pattern plane to a sport flyer. His jaws will hit the floor, and within a week, he'll probably be building one of his own. Pattern planes fly sooooooo nicely because they are specifically designed to be neutral in all axis.
If you stick it in one attitude, its gonna stay there until you move it again. While this is ideal for flying smooth precision aerobatics, it leaves a little to be desired in flying 3D type aerobatics. This is where the sport planes come in. They fill a niche for people wanting to fly snappy, barnstorming aerobatics.

I enjoy flying both. I recently scratch-built a little foam outdoor pattern plane I call the "Revolution3D". I specifically designed it to be a good flying pattern plane, but also be capable of 3D aerobatics. Its got a classic pattern shape, but also has a large elevator and rudder surfaces to help with hovering and tight maneuvers. Fly it on low rates for precision, and high rates when I need to get wild.

Pattern planes are FAR superior to any other type of plane out there in stability, smoothness, precision, and ease of flying. Whats really funny is I wish I had went from a trainer to a pattern plane. Id probably be competing in masters by now. But I went with the sport planes. So here I am....undecided on which I like better....pattern or sport.

Oh the headache. Deciding whether to concentrate on pattern, or flying 3D....hmmm NATS or TOC? Oh well. Im a long way off from both.

AAHHH yes....I'm hooked....Pattern type models fly so much smoother than the average
sport model that I just have to get a new Venus...or other pattern type.....The Venus is just a tad small for me as I'm used to flying 1/4 to 1/3 scale models, but other than that it's great.
If I could come up with a 68" to 72" model, I have the power system for it as long as there's room for batteries in the fuselage, and wing loading could be kept at a reasonable level. Venus weighed
5 1/4 pounds, so I guess the fuel model weight isn't too hard to retain when we change to electric.

Im seriously considering competing. Probably Sportsman class and Intermediate. I could probably fly the other classes, but not with precision it would take to get a score on the board.

Let's not get into the sexist comments because I flew and taught full scale to females, and I have quite a few stories myself...........