Hey Dick, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but the person who told me this is Sean McMurtry's dad. That doesn't mean he is necessarily the bearer of all R/C knowledge, but I tend to believe him when he says something. Maybe he meant to say that 1/4 scale Ultimates just aren't good at 3d, or that they aren't the best choice to do it with. We're not talking about Chip Hyde's Ultimate, but these smaller ones. I know they can do torque rolls, and hang off the prop, which are considered 3d. The previous poster replied that he can do harriers and elevators. So, clearly, there is some 3d that can be done with a 1/4 Ultimate. But, assuming I was a capable pilot, would it be possible to do a waterfall, or a rolling harrier? I guess my question should have been "How capable is the ultimate at 3d?"