I'm a newbie and my goal is to fly 3D. I have a Slo-V park flyer and I have pretty much mastered it. I have a lot of experience with Flight Simulators (not RC simulators) so I fully understand flight dynamics. So call me a "Newbie-Plus".

Anyway, I want to get a 3D plane as soon as possible. I am mainly looking for climbing performance. Hovering is not my primary interest but I want a plane that is capable of that when I'm ready. I am mainly looking for acrobatic performance.

Also, I want to minimize my total investment to reach my goal so I want to get a good plane now rather than step up gradually through 3 or 4 planes.

What I want is a plane that can be tuned down to go slow enough to practice with and then later get a bit faster. I plan to use the programmability of the radios, CG changes, servo pivot point changes, and even lower power batteries in order to limit performance for now but then change those factors later. So what I'd like to know is what you all think is the most tunable plane? In other words, what plane has a performance band running from relatively slow up to medium speed and can be made capable of most of the 3D tricks? I'm not looking to make this my final plane but I want this to be the one with which I learn a lot. So here are the factors to consider:

- Slow through medium speed capability.
- 3D capable with nothing more expensive than an engine change.
- Electric (of course)
- Easily repairable - I much prefer foam and would especially like EPP foam (I think).
- Comes with or upgradable to brushless motors.
- Price is not that important but under $150 for the plane itself if possible.

What would you recommend? Or am I totally nuts for wanting to do it this way?

A first foamy that will fly now, and one day be 3D capable with a swap to a brushless set up? hmmmm...

In the mindset of "simple simon", I'll say an E-Flite Tribute ARF. It is not a purebred hardcore 3D machine, but will harrier and hover all day with a good brushless set up. If you just want to fly it around and do regular aerobatics, then the supplied motor and a good 2S LiPo (1500mah range is good) will do fine. I like Appoggee, Irate, Tanic, and Poly Quest for their high "C" ratings, which means they can pump out the amps when needed. Older LiPos often cannot. Look carefully at the rated constant "C" rating.

When you are done with the stock motor, order a Himaxx 2015-5400 and a 10 tooth pinion gear from any of the online suppliers. I'd guess at about $50 to $60 these days. Some rubber (faucet) washers from the hardware store ($3) will help you center the motor in the supplied gear box. Then order a Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC, probably in the range of $70. You will now have power to spare on a 2S LiPo. This set up can fly foamys in the 12 to 16 ounce range. Most foamys of this size are more along the lines of 12 to 14. Once the repairs push them to 16 ounces, it's time to look for a new plane. There must be a million foamys out there now. Just pick one...

Your next upgrade could be a quality gearbox. Cobri is great, and the Himaxx box is too. The Cobri has more gear options, the Himaxx has only three.

Have fun, and expreiment when money allows. You won't regret it...

I was in the same spot as you three months ago although I needed a computer radio as well. I am extremely happy with my choices:

Airplane: Hell Raiser 3d. $70. High quality depron-based kit. Awesome looks. Great performer in conventional flight, conventional acrobatics, fully 3d capable (check the vid on hobby-lobby site). More fragile than your current plane but fly it 2 mistakes high and you won't crash it. Its foam anyway so you can tape your repairs. If you like to beat up your planes then maybe this isn't the right plane for you. But it's a quality ride if you treat it well. It flies walking speed to over 20 mph. Hobby Lobby's recommended setup is practically priced and very capable. You will not need to upgrade anything to transition to 3d. Motor, electronics are all extra, but you should be airborne for under $300.

Radio: if you will be in the hobby for any length of time, make the investment and get the JR 9303 ($450). This is the best radio for its price bar none. It will handle any kind of flying machine you will ever purchase. It will provide 95% of the mixing capabilities of $1000 radios. It holds 30 aircraft so it will fly your whole inventory plus all of your favorite planes in your simulators (I have 2 real planes currently, and 3 simulator planes and growing fast). It is the easiest to program radio yet. It supports both hi-quality SPCM receivers (for your expensive planes and high alt. gliders) and economical PPM receivers for your knock-around stuff. If you ever want to try full-house unlimited gliders I can say this radio is superb for that task as well.

Happy Flying
Clark

Yeah, I looked at the Hellraiser and it was on my list but reading up on it, a lot of people think it's really fragile. I still might get one but HL has that Pigi 3D that looks to meet most of my requirements. Anyone care to comment on if it would be okay for a second plane?

I do want a good radio but $450 is probably too much at this point. I was hoping for something in the $200 range including servos. Is there something that would prevent a $200 5 channel radio setup from doing the full range of 3D stunts?

check out www.3dfoamy.com have a lok at the motor info etc as well.

for motor/esc combos, servos etc etc check out http://www.balsapr.com/

Take a look at the Mountain Models Panic. It's robust, so you won't have to worry about pranging it as much as you do with the flat foam designs.

There is video of it also on the website.

http://www.mountainmodels.com

I would recommend going to www.jetworksmodels.com.

Download a set of plans for which ever plane that you like. You can use the recommended GWS set-ups for your initial flights, and then when you are ready, move up to brushless.

I would recommend building it from blue fanfold foam. You can purchase blue fanfold foam from Lowes or Home Depot. If you use the fanfold foam, you will have enough for multiple planes. This way if you crash it, you can simply build another one. If you purchase a kit plane, and crash it, you will have to order another kit. This can be an expensive and time consuming way to get into 3D flight.

Most kits will cost between $30-$60. With one pack of fanfold you can make around 8 planes, and the cost for the foam is about 25 bucks.

The other advantage to using fanfold, is that it is thicker than most of the foams provided in kits, which will make the plane fly a little better outdoors. This way you can practice 3D manuvers at a high enough altitude, where if you make a mistake you have enough altitude to recover before a crash.

Once you become adept at flying 3D maneuvers, you can also make the same plane from depron foam. Since you will already be accustomed to flying that perticular plane, you will be able to increase your skills with a much lighter plane.

I wish I had followed my own advice. I would have spent far less money and probably still have some of my original planes.

Enjoy

Damn. I never really thought that I could/should build my own plane. That makes a lot of sense. I'll check that site out. Thanks!

Edit:

Okay I went to that site but it looks like the plans are downloaded after you buy them. Don't they send you a large template in the mail or something? How am I supposed to print a template for a 42" plane on my little inkjet printer? Tell me how it works please.

Hmmm, the website has apparently changed. The only ones he has for free now are the 3DX and the Ultimate biplane. Both of which fly great. I would recommend the 3DX as its construction is much easier for a beginning builder. The Ultimate is a little more difficult because you have four ailerons instead of two.


Ok, when you download the file, it will be in .pdf format

You can open it by using Adobe Acrobat Reader. You probably already have this program on your computer.

When it opens up, just print it on a regular printer.

Each 8 1/2 x 11 sheet will have two registration marks (a small circle with a cross in it)in each corner. Line up all the pages on a large table with the registration marks lined up. Then tape them together. You may have to trim off the edges of the sheet, a paper cutter comes in handy for this.

It takes a little time, but you will end up with a big set of plans.

The key is making sure you line the registration marks up well.
Its really not as hard as it sounds. You should have them all taped up in about 15 min or so.

Also, make sure you measure the plans to make sure your printer printed them to scale.

Edit:
I dont know if the purchased plans come in printed copy or if they are .pdf format also. You may want to shoot them an e-mail to find out...Hope this helps.

You might try www.fancyfoam.com kits are starting at 329.00 High Performance Electric R/C Aircraft for the Experienced Pilot

Pitts Model 12 - Ultra High Performance Combination

This kit comes with the very best components for 3D Practice. As with most of our kits, the Pitts 12 is set up for dual aileron servos. This will allow you to mix the ailerons as needed for flaperon control and differential. It is strongly recommended that you use a computer radio with the ability to set dual rates and exponential. With the full flying stab and 70+ degrees of elevator travel, exponential makes flying a lot more fun.

Kit contents: Complete Pitts Model 12 airframe, precut and glue ready. Himax 2015-4100 brushless motor with Castle Creations Phoenix 25 speed control. GWS "D" gearbox, pinion gear and 12x6 prop. Hitec Electron 6 FM receiver with (4) HS-55 servos. Etec 1200 mah 11.1v, 10C LiPo battery pack with Deans Ultra plug connector. You supply the graphics, glue, charger and Transmitter! ...I have a Futaba 7ca on order with a apache 2500 Li-po charger for 189.00 to my door from www.allerc.com.....This is my first ever and I am have fun getting it all together...cant wait to fly...best of luck!!!!

Hmm... I think that is a bit beyond my level. This plane is going to be beaten up a lot so I like the idea of the profile flyer so I can cut new pieces as needed. I downloaded the Ultimate biplane plans and I'm going to see if the CAD lab at the school I work at can print it out for me.

I'm a bit concerned about getting the ailerons and all tuned up. I'd rather have a step-by-step set of instructions for making this. Anyone know where to find a more comprehensive guide to making a profile plane? That would be worth paying for. I can't see paying for just a template though.

The ailerons arent that difficult. What can be a pain is getting the control horns and linkages set so that both are trimmed level.

Here is a tip with the Ultimate.

Instead of gluing the control horns on the edge of the aileron as shown in the plans, glue the control horns for the top wing on the bottom of the aileron, and glue the control horns for the bottom wing on the top of the ailerons.


Then go get some music wire.

Bend a 90 in one end.

Put the 90 in the top aileron, and than put one of those plastic Du-bro keepers on it.

Then on the bottom control horn, put some Du-bro ez connectors on them. They are a small metal cylinder with a hole in it. you slide the music wire through the hole, and then tighten a small screw to keep it in place.

This way you can make minute adjustments to get them all lined up, without having to rebend wire, or other nonsense. All you have to do to adjust them is loosen the screw and slide the control rod in or out to get it perfect.

I recommend the Du-bro Micro aileron kit for attaching the ailerons to the servos.

If you want to keep the weight down, just cut a piece of carbon rod to length, and CA some music wire to each end. You can put heat shrink over the CA to give it a cleaner look.

I found a series of threads on another forum by the guy that designed the Ultimate biplane. I'm feeling really good about building this myself. I got the plans printed at Kinko's today. I'm gonna build as much as I can and then take it to the LHS to find a good combination of electronics and motor. I might work up a list of stuff myself from the info on that other forum and have them order it all.

I gotta thank you guys for clueing me into the possibility of building this myself. It never really occured to me that it was something a novice could do. I'm sure I'll learn a lot about building and flying at the same time.

Certainly a novice can build an airplane. In fact I encourage everyone to do it, its a skill that every modeler should have.

There was a quote in this month's Model Aviation magazine that I memorized, and it is one of the best ones I have ever heard.

"Give a pilot an airplane and he flies 'til he crashes. Teach a pilot to build and he flies for a lifetime" - Paul K Johnson

I sincerly believe this is exactly correct. A modeler that can build a plane will be a modeler for life. I remember when I first got interested in model aviation. My dad had been flying for years. I asked him to build me a plane so I could fly. My dad just mumbled "Uh huh". I waited about a week, hoping my dad would soon start building me a plane.

The following saturday, my dad handed me a cardboard box. Enclosed was a Prarie Bird....in kit form. He said "You want a plane to fly, you build it, and dont mess it up" I looked at all those pieces of balsa and these plans that looked like some form of strange nuclear physics. I went into the garage, layed out the plans on a large wooden board, and started reading the instructions. It took me three days before I was ready to start laying out the first pieces. I started laying out the pieces of balsa, and gluing them together. It took me nearly three weeks just to get the fuselage done. All the while my dad would come take a look, and then go back in the house without uttering a word. I finally got the fuselage done, and started on the wings. Two weeks later I had the wing completely built. I brought it all to my dad, to show him my work. He said "The wing is warped, you didnt build it straight." He handed me another cardboard box with a bunch of fresh balsa. He said "Take the plans and use them to cut all new pieces for the wing, then build it straight." Im sure the look on my face was less than happy. Now let me tell you....cutting all new pieces for a wing from scratch is NO easy job. Eventually, I finished building another wing, with a little help from pop.

I flew that prarie bird till the fuselage was soaked with fuel. I never crashed that plane. I still have it, it sits in the shop.

Since that time, I have built every plane I own with my own two hands...and I've been flying for my lifetime.

www.3dfoamy.com , Heard lots of great things about the new wing design.

You may want to check out the Foamtana S produced at http://www.pacifier.com/~dcady/

These are great airplanes with the recommended set-up. A number of our club members are now flying them indoors but the can also handle slightly windy conditions outdoors. The kit is excellent! Very easy to put together and great service from the manufacturer.

Mark

I decided to build the 30” [link=http://www.jetworksmodels.com./airplanes.htm]Ultimate Biplane[/link] out of BlueCor foam. If you aren't aware there is a huge string of posts from people that have built or are building this and similar planes [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240664]here.[/link] I'm gonna learn a lot building this this thing.

Let us know how it comes out. I think your gonna have fun building that plane..I know I did. It really flys great too. Really smooth and docile at slow speeds, but will rip when you pop the throttle to it.