i have been flying glow for years and i just started to get into a little 3D flying when i bought my U-Can-Do 3D 60. i have flown many different electric planes and i am thinking of trying a 3D foamie.

these are the ones im considering right now but i am open to suggestion. the only "but" i have is that i dont want a brushless motor. i want to keep this thing fairly cheep because i bought too many planes over winter.

im looking at either the Great Planes Flatana.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJTK0&P=0

or

the U-Can-Do 3D EP
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJPU8&P=0


im leaning toward the Flatana but if there are any other planes that come to mind please let me know.

thx EVOL

Saw the Flatana fly in Memphis at the EAC Indoor last month. Looked good. Saw the UCD fly (or attempt to fly) and was NOT impressed. From what I've read you should stay away from it.
Not sure how the Flatana (or the entire line of Flat-Outs for that matter) would do outdoors. It would have to be DEAD calm, b/c they are so lite.
Id say go with a Chuck Flyer first.
http://www.swanyshouse.com/chuckflyer/chuckflyer.html

When you get it, trace out the foam on blue fan fold insulation. That way when its gone to airplane heaven (and it will), you can just build another, and another and another................
There are many frfee plans for download out there too!
just tryin to steer ya in the right direction.

As far as "not going brushless" have you considered this:
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3319

Its a steal and drops right in the nose of a Chuck Flyer!

May also want to check out the Tensor

Honestly any of the current planes should fly well. The best flying ones I found are the Ikarus shockflyers. Simple no-nonsense flying machines. While I havent had a chance to fly any of Great Planes Flats...Ive heard they are REALLY great...especially the Reflection. Whatever you build if you plan on flying it indoors, you really should go brushless. Can motors are just too heavy for indoor 3D flight. If you really want to save money...download some plans for a decent plane (3Dfoamy.com or jetworksmodels.com) and build it from fanfold.

Fanfold is supercheap. $30 bucks for about 10-15 planes worth of foam. If your looking for top notch performance, just buy sheets of depron. Still FAR cheaper than a kit. Make your control horns from ply or even nylon zipties.

If you are seriously wanting to do 3D indoors, you MUST build the plane light for it to fly worth a flip. 8oz or less. This is hard to do with fanfold, so keep that in mind when you start buying materials.

Brushless motors aren't that expensive, and you can keep costs down.

Take a look at the BP21 and BP12 from www.balsapr.com. They run around 26 bucks for a brushless outrunner, and they are nice motors. Ive been using them exclusively for a while now. Ive yet to find any indoor plane they wont fly. They come with a standard GWS type mount, or can simply be bolted to a plywood firewall.

As far as ESC's go your gonna probably spend 20 bucks for a decent ESC for a can motor, its really worth it to spend the few extra bucks to get a brushless ESC. Balsapr.com also has some decent brushless ESC's for around 39 bucks. Go for 18A or higher for the BP series brushless motors.
Another good buy is the E-flite 20A brushless ESC, street price is around 41 bucks.

Try any of the planes at FancyFoam.com or RCskydiving.com, for the money you can't go wrong. Regarding brushless, sell a plane or two that you bought during th winter, brushless is the only way to go. High power, high efficiency (especially with the Himax 2812-850), and in the long run it will save you money, becuase the brushed motors don't last very long.

thanks for the info guys that really helped.

i am still kinda thinking about the Flatana just because its only $40 for the kit. i have hitec micro servos and receiver so all i need is the lo-po battery. i just want something cheap to see if i like it or not. if i do like it then i will definatly look into a brushless motor and ESC.

i probably wont fly indoors (unless i can find somewhere in milwaukee that offers indoor R/C) so i really just would like to go to the lighted parking lot at night when the wind is calm. i have a DWE micro skeeter (under 1oz.) that i fly at night and it does great so i think a foamie should be ok. the video on the great planes site shows the "Flat-Outs" hovering in stock configuration.

you guys know your stuff though and i would still like to get more info. keep it coming.

EVOL

it cost me about $500 to get the e-flite tribute3d all finished and hi pro
the yak 54 looks killer [link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL2125]click to view yak54[/link]

you really should go brushless the tribute 3d came with brushed motor
but i just tossed it because thrust is what brushless motors provide 59.95 for my 4100kv 370
and im very impressed with its power

if you want inexpensive, you can go with a shockflyer with a cd-rom motor, the plane is only 30-40, the brushless motor kit is a measly 10 bucks and the speed control will only put u back 55.

just go with the FMS free download and fly all you want

Check out www.3DFoamy.com He has plans and a totally redesigned composite/depron laminite construction with his signature wing design.(G-force wing)

I tried the same thing you are trying and found that brushed motors for 3D foamies is worthless. My Eflite Ultimate would barely fly stock. I went with a HiMax 2812/0650 brushless and new ESC and the plane is altogether different and fun to fly now. The plane, mtor, batteries, charger and on board radio ended up costing me about $600, after I told my wife $200 is all it will take, but I found out brushed motors suck for 3D.

My next foamy will be from www.3dfoamy.com hands down. They are made in USA from a top notch company when it comes to flight characteristics and customer service.

I highly suggest you abandon the idea of brushed motors though. It simply is not any fun they don't have enough power. It'd be like putting a .30 4 stroke on your UCD 60.

I'm with the several posts above.... beleive us...you won't like brushed

it is fine for parkflyers and the like... but it just won't do it for "good" 3d
I tried all sorts of combos of brushed cans....
in the time I could have purchased a brushless and been happy...

I've used the Himax geard 2015-4166 and that was nice, but now I use a Hacker A20.... yes it is an investment..but WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!


it just rocks.....
so much more fun

i have decided to go with a shock flyer. it wasnt on my list but i was doing more reading and it seems like ya just can go wrong with the good old shockie. i went with the new Yak because it is supossed to have the best flight qualities and i am putting a BP 21 brushless in it. its got blue bird micro servos and i will start off with a 350 mhz li-po. ill report more after i fly it.

EVOL

You cant go wrong with that. Nice plane and a decent set-up. That should fly fine indoors. Remember when you build it..Weight is KEY, especially for indoor flight.

Ive got a 4.5oz shocky superstar that is a DREAM to fly.

When you get your BP21, take a dremel and chop the shaft down. Then order a propsaver, and put that on the front. It will save a little weight and you wont have that big dangerous post sticking out the front of your airplane. Ive got three of those motors and they work great. Just a tad heavier than a Axi.

Let us know what you think when you get it.

The Yak flys real nice. And hovers real good.

for some real cheap 3D i got the gp yak and put a GWS 6:1 brushed motor about the same as the stock setup and a thunder power 3 cell 860 lipo and a cheap GWS speed control and wala unlimited vert but you go through motors quick but i'm just useing it till i can get a brushless setup. then i'm getting the shocky

I just have a question....I am not good with speed controls.....if u only need a 10 amp speed control you could always use something slighty bigger and it wouldn't matter right?

Does home depot sell this foam stuff? what is the foam called...I heard depron and something else

Home Depot and Lowes "should" have it...it is called Fan Fold foam....(at least that is what we call it..)
it will be in the insulation aisle

********EMERGENCY***************

i just went to my hobby store to pick up some battry connectors and i was told some bad news that im not sure is correct.

they were saying that the BP 21 draws a max 13 amps and that the battery i have (electrifly 3C 350) would be toast if i go full power. so i asked them what kind of battery i COULD use and the only thing they had was this big HEAVY 1050 mha battery for $60. this battery weighed about 1/2 of what the entire plane did.

so.........i have a 20 amp speed control so what battery are you guys using with your BP 21 brushless? i understand that i could also prop the engine so that is wount be able to draw 13 amps so what prop should i use? HEEEEEELP

EVOL

I was using the E-flite 20amp esc. Ive used the BP21 with two different batteries.

A Tanic 7.4V 1550mah Lipo (I use this outdoor where the weight doesnt matter as much...and it lasts a LONG time) With a high throttle, ripping flight in my pattern plane, for about 15-20min non-stop, the battery just gets lukewarm.

and

A Thunderpower 7.4V 730mah Lipo (for indoor flying, because its SUPER light) Indoor flying, slow speed, 7min flights, its just a tad warm...not even lukewarm.

I dont know what the discharge rate is on that Electrifly lipo, but as long as your not running around at full throttle and dont over prop it, you shouldn't have a problem. I think the Tanic is a 10amp discharge, 12amp burst. The Thunderpower is probably about the same.

If you build that shocky light, it should hover between 1/4 to 1/2 throttle on that battery. Bear in mind that a 3cell lipo will put out 21oz of thrust on a BP21. If your entire plane only weighs 7-9oz....what in the world would you need full throttle for? And if you did somehow manage to get that thing up to full throttle, it would probably rip the wings off.

I really dont think you'll have a problem. My suggestion would be to test it before flying it. Its ok for the battery to get a little warm, but if it gets hot to the touch, and starts expanding....look out!

Anyone know what the discharge rate on the electrifly lipo's is? As long as its 9 amps or above, you'll probably be able to get away with it.

I cant imagine you ever even getting that thing to full throttle. My outdoor pattern plane weighs 10.3oz. With the 2cell Tanic, at full throttle, it will clip by at about 40mph, and pull vertical easily at about 3/4 on the BP21. And its BIG...58" wingspan.

The shocky is about 42" wingspan, and only weighs 7-9oz at its worst (5-6oz if built right)....Its gonna be a rocket with a 3cell.

bdavison.......thank you for the info.

how many cells are your batterys? and what prop are you using for the BP 21?

EVOL

Both the Tanic and the Thunderpower are 2 cell lipos. I do alot of indoor flying, and a little outdoor. Ive found that 2cells work just fine, and I like the weight it saves. Been thinking about running a 3cell on the pattern plane outdoors though.

As far as props....here's what Ive found

GWS 8.4 (orange slowflyer)- simple easy to fly prop. Not really performance oriented, but capable of aerobatics and 3D on a light plane. Tends to cavitate on high G downline maneuvers due to its flexibility. Easily broken

GWS 8x4.5 (black) Superb indoor prop. Flys smooth, high rpm's make it a little torquey,but offers a nice smooth but quick punchout of hovering maneuvers. Best on extremely light planes. Tough too. Spools up real fast.
You may need expo on your throttle channel for best results.

APC 8.4 (big hub)- much better than the GWS, smooth flying. Weighs a bit much for indoor flight. Best used on 3cells outdoors on a high-rpm motor. Bolt this puppy to the motor shaft....NO propsavers with this one.

APC 8.6 (large hub)- WILD prop, Great for outdoors, WAY to punchy for indoor flight. Unless you expo the throttle channel for 40-60%. Extremely fast raw yanking power. If you go from half to full throttle with this one....it will literally YANK the plane. If your into BANK and YANK...this ones for you!

APC 9.4 Slowflyer (small hub) - Great overall prop. Smooth throttle transitions, runs quiet. Good for indoor sport flying. Spools up like it has "expo"....smooth pull, then it punches. If your into precision flying...this props for you.

APC 9x4.7 (small hub) - Great prop for indoor or outdoor flying and 3D. Smooth transitions. Increased pitch means that although the spool up is slower, its still pulling at the same time. Makes uplines and downlines very even speed.

This is all on the BP21.

So basically, if your flying indoor- GWS 8x4(blackie) for 3D or APC 9x4 for sport
Outdoor ...APC 9x4.7 for precision or APC 8x4 for sport flying
For speed...APC 8x6


Side note...all you guys running those GWS 8.4 orange props on your AXI 2204/54....you really should try a 8.4 GWS black.