Seagull Models EP Extra 300
08-11-2008, 06:43 PM
#226
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
Hello Sea Gull Extra 300 lovers,
I bought and built this model a year ago and after maiden, I decided I didn't like the way it flew and moved on to an E-Flight Mini Funtana X......Since that time, it has been sitting in the hanger, collecting dust. I decided that I need to fly it or dispose of it. My flying skills have improved some, since then and I now can fly it without having panic attacks. After a half dozen flights I determined what it was I didn't like about it. I don't know how to explain it, so I'll just tell it like I see it.....
On take off it just wants to climb. It will continue to climb until you feed in down elevator. No amount of trimming will make this plane fly straight and level. I just keep see sawing the elevator. I'm very used to this type of plane as I have the Fliton AJ Extra, the Hyperion Yak 40e, The E-Flight Mini Funtana, and the E-Flight Extra 260. None of them have this issue. I've checked the sero's and they all center perfectly. The wings are straight and true as is the rear stab. The plane is balanced per spec. I've moved the cg forward and aft, but it doesn't change anything. Also, it doesn't fly inverted for crap. In order to keep it up I need to feed in an excessive amount of down elevator, and just about the time you get it flying straight it tries to pull into an inverted inside loop. I'm thinking it may have thrust angle issues, but I've never built a plane that acts like this. Aileron rolls are axial both clockwise and counterclockwise. I've even dialed in 50% expo and that just it fly like a dolpin in larger arcs. It does smooth out a little when I really pour the power to it, but any type of high alpha moves wind up in a loop if I'm power up, or a stall at reduced throttle.
Some guys say it needs down thrust on the motor, but others say it has too much down thrust and it causes the plane to pull up.....
I'm flying it on the lower KV Park 480 with Thunder Power 3S 2100 Pro Lites. If I don't figure it out, I think this plane will be finding itself a new home, where some one else can figure it out.......Pat
I bought and built this model a year ago and after maiden, I decided I didn't like the way it flew and moved on to an E-Flight Mini Funtana X......Since that time, it has been sitting in the hanger, collecting dust. I decided that I need to fly it or dispose of it. My flying skills have improved some, since then and I now can fly it without having panic attacks. After a half dozen flights I determined what it was I didn't like about it. I don't know how to explain it, so I'll just tell it like I see it.....
On take off it just wants to climb. It will continue to climb until you feed in down elevator. No amount of trimming will make this plane fly straight and level. I just keep see sawing the elevator. I'm very used to this type of plane as I have the Fliton AJ Extra, the Hyperion Yak 40e, The E-Flight Mini Funtana, and the E-Flight Extra 260. None of them have this issue. I've checked the sero's and they all center perfectly. The wings are straight and true as is the rear stab. The plane is balanced per spec. I've moved the cg forward and aft, but it doesn't change anything. Also, it doesn't fly inverted for crap. In order to keep it up I need to feed in an excessive amount of down elevator, and just about the time you get it flying straight it tries to pull into an inverted inside loop. I'm thinking it may have thrust angle issues, but I've never built a plane that acts like this. Aileron rolls are axial both clockwise and counterclockwise. I've even dialed in 50% expo and that just it fly like a dolpin in larger arcs. It does smooth out a little when I really pour the power to it, but any type of high alpha moves wind up in a loop if I'm power up, or a stall at reduced throttle.
Some guys say it needs down thrust on the motor, but others say it has too much down thrust and it causes the plane to pull up.....
I'm flying it on the lower KV Park 480 with Thunder Power 3S 2100 Pro Lites. If I don't figure it out, I think this plane will be finding itself a new home, where some one else can figure it out.......Pat
08-11-2008, 07:08 PM
#227
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
ORIGINAL: patnchris
Hello Sea Gull Extra 300 lovers,
I bought and built this model a year ago and after maiden, I decided I didn't like the way it flew and moved on to an E-Flight Mini Funtana X......Since that time, it has been sitting in the hanger, collecting dust. I decided that I need to fly it or dispose of it. My flying skills have improved some, since then and I now can fly it without having panic attacks. After a half dozen flights I determined what it was I didn't like about it. I don't know how to explain it, so I'll just tell it like I see it.....
On take off it just wants to climb. It will continue to climb until you feed in down elevator. No amount of trimming will make this plane fly straight and level. I just keep see sawing the elevator. I'm very used to this type of plane as I have the Fliton AJ Extra, the Hyperion Yak 40e, The E-Flight Mini Funtana, and the E-Flight Extra 260. None of them have this issue. I've checked the sero's and they all center perfectly. The wings are straight and true as is the rear stab. The plane is balanced per spec. I've moved the cg forward and aft, but it doesn't change anything. Also, it doesn't fly inverted for crap. In order to keep it up I need to feed in an excessive amount of down elevator, and just about the time you get it flying straight it tries to pull into an inverted inside loop. I'm thinking it may have thrust angle issues, but I've never built a plane that acts like this. Aileron rolls are axial both clockwise and counterclockwise. I've even dialed in 50% expo and that just it fly like a dolpin in larger arcs. It does smooth out a little when I really pour the power to it, but any type of high alpha moves wind up in a loop if I'm power up, or a stall at reduced throttle.
Some guys say it needs down thrust on the motor, but others say it has too much down thrust and it causes the plane to pull up.....
I'm flying it on the lower KV Park 480 with Thunder Power 3S 2100 Pro Lites. If I don't figure it out, I think this plane will be finding itself a new home, where some one else can figure it out.......Pat
Hello Sea Gull Extra 300 lovers,
I bought and built this model a year ago and after maiden, I decided I didn't like the way it flew and moved on to an E-Flight Mini Funtana X......Since that time, it has been sitting in the hanger, collecting dust. I decided that I need to fly it or dispose of it. My flying skills have improved some, since then and I now can fly it without having panic attacks. After a half dozen flights I determined what it was I didn't like about it. I don't know how to explain it, so I'll just tell it like I see it.....
On take off it just wants to climb. It will continue to climb until you feed in down elevator. No amount of trimming will make this plane fly straight and level. I just keep see sawing the elevator. I'm very used to this type of plane as I have the Fliton AJ Extra, the Hyperion Yak 40e, The E-Flight Mini Funtana, and the E-Flight Extra 260. None of them have this issue. I've checked the sero's and they all center perfectly. The wings are straight and true as is the rear stab. The plane is balanced per spec. I've moved the cg forward and aft, but it doesn't change anything. Also, it doesn't fly inverted for crap. In order to keep it up I need to feed in an excessive amount of down elevator, and just about the time you get it flying straight it tries to pull into an inverted inside loop. I'm thinking it may have thrust angle issues, but I've never built a plane that acts like this. Aileron rolls are axial both clockwise and counterclockwise. I've even dialed in 50% expo and that just it fly like a dolpin in larger arcs. It does smooth out a little when I really pour the power to it, but any type of high alpha moves wind up in a loop if I'm power up, or a stall at reduced throttle.
Some guys say it needs down thrust on the motor, but others say it has too much down thrust and it causes the plane to pull up.....
I'm flying it on the lower KV Park 480 with Thunder Power 3S 2100 Pro Lites. If I don't figure it out, I think this plane will be finding itself a new home, where some one else can figure it out.......Pat
08-11-2008, 07:21 PM
#228
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
it's simple really; trim it for level flight and then climb straight up wide open throttle; If it pitches to the canopy it needs down thrust If it pitches to the gear it needs up thrust. same goes for side to side. That's how i check all my 3D planes. Mine flew great, a lot better than i could fly it at the time, wish i had another one to see if i'd still like it as much. It crashed in an esc burn out over a year ago.
08-11-2008, 09:12 PM
#229
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
patnchris,
There is definately something wrong with your paticular plane. My Seagull Extra is one of the most neutral flying planes that I've flown. By the way, I'm running the same 480 920 Kv motor as you. It's a little underpowered but a APC 13 x6.5 E prop helps.
Phillip
There is definately something wrong with your paticular plane. My Seagull Extra is one of the most neutral flying planes that I've flown. By the way, I'm running the same 480 920 Kv motor as you. It's a little underpowered but a APC 13 x6.5 E prop helps.
Phillip
08-20-2008, 09:01 AM
#230
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
Mystery solved. I finally got this plane on the bench, where I could get a good look at it. the first thing I noticed was that there was a little play where the control rod connected to the horn. As I saw no easy way to fix this, I decided to go with a slightly heavier rod that fit tighter.
The second thing I noticed was that there was some movement in the servo arm with no power applied. I applied power and the servo centered normally. However, when I put a little pressure on the elevator, the servo immediately over corrected and then centered. I removed the servo and installed one I had laying around, and this issue went away.
All good, so far. I put a pack in and started to trim the elevator. I noticed what appeared to be a slight twist in the elevator. I grabbed both sides and gave it a slight twist. There was no resistance. It appears that the joint between the halves was broken. I carefully stripped away the covering and what I found was disturbing. It appears that the elevator was made in two pieces, instead of one and the only thing holding the two halves together was the covering. I made a cripple from a piece of lite ply and CA's it in place.
I took it to the field and after one pack to trim it out, the plane now flys like it should.....As I built this plane a year or so ago, and it was my first wood plane, I guess I never guessed it could be made wrong. I also never guessed that a new servo, even though it appeared to work, would not function properly. I also assumed that the hardware furnished with the plane would fit properly.....I know better now, but back then I was really green......Anyway, I now have another good plane to fly (crash)....Pat
The second thing I noticed was that there was some movement in the servo arm with no power applied. I applied power and the servo centered normally. However, when I put a little pressure on the elevator, the servo immediately over corrected and then centered. I removed the servo and installed one I had laying around, and this issue went away.
All good, so far. I put a pack in and started to trim the elevator. I noticed what appeared to be a slight twist in the elevator. I grabbed both sides and gave it a slight twist. There was no resistance. It appears that the joint between the halves was broken. I carefully stripped away the covering and what I found was disturbing. It appears that the elevator was made in two pieces, instead of one and the only thing holding the two halves together was the covering. I made a cripple from a piece of lite ply and CA's it in place.
I took it to the field and after one pack to trim it out, the plane now flys like it should.....As I built this plane a year or so ago, and it was my first wood plane, I guess I never guessed it could be made wrong. I also never guessed that a new servo, even though it appeared to work, would not function properly. I also assumed that the hardware furnished with the plane would fit properly.....I know better now, but back then I was really green......Anyway, I now have another good plane to fly (crash)....Pat
08-28-2008, 09:52 AM
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08-28-2008, 04:10 PM
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RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. This morning was good flying weather so I decided to take advantage of a couple of hours of daylight before going to work.
I started by warming up with the Mini Ultra Stik. Nothing special. Just flying around, inverted, loops, rolls, flat spins, etc. Two flights in I landed a little slow and nosed over. Just a broken prop. No big deal.
Next up, the Sea Gull Extra 300. This is the plane that had the weird control problems. Since I found the problems, it has become a very good flyer and a good plane to practice 3D. The first flight went with only a minor hitch. I had replace the rudder servo with an HS 65 and had reversed the arm to allow for a longer one. I forgot to reverse the throw and so it was backwards. Landed perfectly. Reversed the rudder and installed a second pack. On take off I went directly to inverted and then into an inverted loop. It was a sight to behold. I then rolled into a knife edge and flew 3 complete circuits without falling out. It was awesome. Then I climbed high into the air and went into a flat spin. No the greatest flat spin as I need to figure out how to get it flatter, but still there. Rolled over and flew a couple circuits inverted and then climbed straight up to about 300 feet. That when the inner moron took over. I went into a full throttle vertical dive. It was screaming…….screaming…..and then, just 10 or so feet from the ground, I pulled up hard. I heard a crack and saw a piece fly off. And then there was something flapping around the tail section. I chopped the throttle and then realized that I had little or no elevator control. Amazingly, the plane flattened out, completely horizontal and just floated to the ground like a parachute. I walked over and could see what had happened, before I got there. The horizontal stabilizer had broken on both sides, right at the fuse. The elevator broke at the joint and one side was completely torn away. The rest was just hanging there by the covering and the control horn. I guess, as the flying skill increase, the weaknesses start to show up. I know that on the Mini Funtana they have 4 carbon fiber struts that stabilize and strengthen the horizontal stabilizer, but this plane had none. I probably should have done it, though, as I see many of the guys at the club field have them installed on their larger planes.
The repair should not be that bad. I will rebuild the area and probably replace the piece on the leading edge with carbon fiber, rather than balsa. I’ll also fabricate and install the struts the same way they are on the E-flight planes.
I’m not really upset about this, as I can make it better than it was and I’ll also be able to address the weakness in the elevator joiner from the start. It will be flying agan by the weekend…….Pat
I started by warming up with the Mini Ultra Stik. Nothing special. Just flying around, inverted, loops, rolls, flat spins, etc. Two flights in I landed a little slow and nosed over. Just a broken prop. No big deal.
Next up, the Sea Gull Extra 300. This is the plane that had the weird control problems. Since I found the problems, it has become a very good flyer and a good plane to practice 3D. The first flight went with only a minor hitch. I had replace the rudder servo with an HS 65 and had reversed the arm to allow for a longer one. I forgot to reverse the throw and so it was backwards. Landed perfectly. Reversed the rudder and installed a second pack. On take off I went directly to inverted and then into an inverted loop. It was a sight to behold. I then rolled into a knife edge and flew 3 complete circuits without falling out. It was awesome. Then I climbed high into the air and went into a flat spin. No the greatest flat spin as I need to figure out how to get it flatter, but still there. Rolled over and flew a couple circuits inverted and then climbed straight up to about 300 feet. That when the inner moron took over. I went into a full throttle vertical dive. It was screaming…….screaming…..and then, just 10 or so feet from the ground, I pulled up hard. I heard a crack and saw a piece fly off. And then there was something flapping around the tail section. I chopped the throttle and then realized that I had little or no elevator control. Amazingly, the plane flattened out, completely horizontal and just floated to the ground like a parachute. I walked over and could see what had happened, before I got there. The horizontal stabilizer had broken on both sides, right at the fuse. The elevator broke at the joint and one side was completely torn away. The rest was just hanging there by the covering and the control horn. I guess, as the flying skill increase, the weaknesses start to show up. I know that on the Mini Funtana they have 4 carbon fiber struts that stabilize and strengthen the horizontal stabilizer, but this plane had none. I probably should have done it, though, as I see many of the guys at the club field have them installed on their larger planes.
The repair should not be that bad. I will rebuild the area and probably replace the piece on the leading edge with carbon fiber, rather than balsa. I’ll also fabricate and install the struts the same way they are on the E-flight planes.
I’m not really upset about this, as I can make it better than it was and I’ll also be able to address the weakness in the elevator joiner from the start. It will be flying agan by the weekend…….Pat
01-10-2011, 08:42 AM
#235
RE: Seagull Models EP Extra 300
Here is mine with a few mods. New landing gear and fiberglass wheel pants and spinner. Also moved the landing gear back to look more scale and it handle much better on the ground.
