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Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

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Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Old 09-19-2006, 07:48 PM
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mcoulter
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Default Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Well I'm fairly confident that I'm not the 1st person who's done this (specifics are below...) I feel compelled to share my experience with other like me who might be lurking in this forum.

What I've done is move into too much of a plane too soon.

Being enthusiastic and (in hindsight) over confident I've jumped into my second plane (GP FlightFlex Yak 55) and have done a fantastic job of tearing it to shreds, much to the annoyment of my wife... [:@] I did great with my 1st plane (SkyFly RTF) and I've done well with all the computer RC sims that I've tried. I've found out that flying the real thing is a bit more difficult! I knew that making this jump would be rough, that's why I was thrilled to find the FlightFlex Yak at my LHS. It looked like a great idea - a nice flexy/bouncy plane would be durable and great to learn on, RIGHT? I've found that each of my crashes are nose-to-the-ground and tear a hole in the side of the plane big enough for the battery to pop out type-crashes. FlightFlex does not like these... Yes while I've repaired most of these plane injuries I feel like a schmuck now.

On to my question…

Should I keep with this plane until it’s not repairable any more (taking the chances of damaging the components I’ve installed in it)? Or should I cut my losses and fork out the $$ for a more appropriate plane like a Multiplex MiniMag, Space Scooter or other such flyer?

Details…

For the Yak I thought I could reduce the end point adjustment on my transmitter to make the plane more calm-flying. What this a mistake, should I leave the throws within the low spec? Can anyone offer more suggestions on what I can do to make this plane friendly?

If I were to move to a different plane here’s what I have to work with. Any suggestion on a more appropriate plane these would work well in?

Futaba 4EX transmitter w/matching micro rx
Futaba 3108m (3) and 3110m (1) micro servos
GP LiPo 1500mAh 11.1V 3S 8C battery
GP ElectriFly C-25 Mini Brushed ESC w/BEC

Thanks in Advance!
Old 09-19-2006, 09:36 PM
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lwatson
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Don't feel bad. We all make this mistake. I got a GWS P51 for my second plane. It was a lot faster than I was. So, I backed up and did a true aileron trainer. What you are looking for is something that fly's slow, is high wing or shoulder wing, and if you set the transmitter on the ground it would simply fly itself. (Of course, it might fly away, but it is not going to hit the ground in the next 10 seconds)

I did the Dandy sport from Mountain Models, you have some great equipment for it. You had better keep it at 1/2 thottle however. Another one you could look at is the GWS e-starter (but I have not flown that one, so you might want to check with others)

So I think my advise is set that plane aside. Save it for your 3rd or 4th plane, and spend $50 on a new plane. Also, find someone to help you fly it the first time.
Old 09-19-2006, 09:57 PM
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mcoulter
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Thanks for the comments. Fortunatly I do have someone more skilled to fly with. He had the wisdom to start with a slow stick, moved to an easy star and now is flying a tiger moth. (without breaking one of 'em!)
Old 09-19-2006, 10:09 PM
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SoonerAce
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

You said it yourself: "...the more appropriate plane" get something that your comfortable with then push it to the limit. When that gets really boring,,,,then step up, but start at the low end of the next group. JMHO.
Old 09-19-2006, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

ORIGINAL: lwatson
Another one you could look at is the GWS e-starter (but I have not flown that one, so you might want to check with others)
Give that a try. Look at RC Groups for loads of info about it. It will indeed fly hands off when trimmed ok, its cheap and will boost your skills. You could more than likely (I did) manage to use the LiPo that you have but with it in the 'radio bay' rather than the battery bay (which is where my RX is located). You could maybe also use the same brushed ESC if it supports LiPo cutoff voltages. I used the brushed motor in the TM400 with an ESC that didn't do the LiPo cutoffs and added this warning LED but that was useless and even with timings as well, I wasted a LiPo. I eventually moved to a LiPo-aware brushed ESC. Also, you could go for one of the cheap BP21 / brushless ESC combos for not a lot of money. This is the motor of choice for the GWS warbirds as well and although I've not tried one myself they do say that the Corsair and Zero are not that hard a next step after the E-Starter.
Old 09-20-2006, 05:04 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

mcoulter>> I know exactly how it is to jump from a 3ch parkflyer RTF to a 3D. I bought a Potensky Cobra EPP. I installed a cheap Rx and Tx. I crashed the plane a million times, and broke so many props.

Now I've bought a new transmitter, a Multiplex Cockpit SX. It was something totally different after I reduced the stick sensibility (end point). Now I can actually controle it, and when I'm high up, I turn on the extreme settings on the transmitter. When the plane rush against the ground, I switch back to easy flight. That works fine for me.

If you can't controle the sensibility on your transmitter, you could try to move the rudder/aileron/elevator wire to the nearest hole to the servo, that'll reduce the sensibility.

I hope you understood what I wrote.

Good luck.


/Doz
Old 09-20-2006, 08:24 AM
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mcoulter
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

ORIGINAL: Doz_75


If you can't controle the sensibility on your transmitter, you could try to move the rudder/aileron/elevator wire to the nearest hole to the servo, that'll reduce the sensibility.


In a way I've done this. My TX allows me to both set the end point adjustment as well as add expo into the throw. Using these I've greatly reduced the movement of the control surfaces -- and now that I think about it maybe I should NOT use much expo with the reduced throws. I'll try that next time.
Old 09-20-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

I made exactly the same mistake... I started with an eStarter (great plane, but needs fairly large area to fly in) and moved to a Yak Flight Flex. I really dont beleive in the flight flex concept at all.... the thing flew like a brick and tore so easily. I moved from that to an Ikarus Yak 54 shocky , which was fantastic (if a bit fragile), bearing in mind I flew glow 10 years ago, so I have a little experience.

I would give up on the Flight Flex, as the frustration was more than the enjoyment for me. There are others that have found the FF okay, but my experience was not good. Unfortunately the FF are not the cheapest which leaves a bad taste, but its best to move on.

At the moment I am flying an eFlite Tribute ($39) which is an easy to fly fun plane. I have moved from the large batteries (too much weight) to 700mah, and to 300 size motor (light brushless) with a light weight ESC and servos.

The thing that I am finding is that large wing area (380 cuI) coupled to low weight (12oz) gives the plane generally a far more forgiving nature. It flies super slow, does basic 3D manoevres, and if you do crash, typically less damage is done.

One thing, the motor that comes with the FF Yak is pretty good for a brushed motor (Ball Bearing Hover) if a bit heavy, so keeping your ESC and motor and going for a simpe inexpesive slow flying plane would be a good idea. I lighter battery pack would be nice at some point, but a different plane would be my first choice!

Good luck....

Mark
Old 09-20-2006, 04:28 PM
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jdetray
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Sensitivity, not sensibility.

- Jeff
Old 09-21-2006, 11:49 AM
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Doz_75
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Sensitivity of course.

Thanx Jeff.


/Doz
Old 10-08-2006, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

I have two friends that made the classic newbie mistake. To much plane, too soon. As a newbie myself, I think I did it right and thought I would pass along my steps to 3d flight in a short time. I started with a Slow-V, trimmed right, when you get in trouble just cut power and it will land itself. Next plane was the Slow stick, himax 2812-650, thunderbird 18, 12x6 with lipos. When I mastered the extra power I converted the wings over to ailerons. I practiced inverted flight and simple areobatics and after I gained confidence I moved all my electronics over to the Diablo 3D by 3dbatix http://www.3dbatix.com/plans.php?plane=diablo (free download) If you buy the depron in 10 sheet cases the airframe will cost less than $15. I made templates out of 1/4" melamine, so rebuilds are quick. If you want to master 3d flight without crashes you are in a dream world. After 8 months of flying I can do most of the 3d stuff at altitude and only crash when I do dumb things right on the deck (like trimming the tall grass just for fun). I'm a retired old fart and love the adrinaline rushes of 3d flight. Another tip: buy at least 3 batteries so you can fly almost non stop when you have time to fly. I crashed alot in the beginning but the repairs are cheap (about $5 on average). Most important tip: cut power before you hit. my 2 cents worth. pops
Old 10-08-2006, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Well mine is more devastating than that. I started slowsticks, broke about a dozen gearboxes,6 motors and the finally boom. Then the mini super sportster ep that never left ground totalled the cowl area and front wall. Third is tribute flies great about 50 flights on it. But every flight I have nose landings on grass....YUP every time...so my foamy was almost twice as heavy coz of the epoxy repairs. Lemme think its about 10 gearboxes, 5 brushless, 3 motor mount and 2 fuse spars. Fourth will be airfoilz(not here yet) I really hope this will be my last plane, coz my wife will kill me after that. And when the new plane arrives the tribute will be put to rest(RIP).
I'm about 6 months to this hobbies and look how much money burned. And to really tell you guys I'm not a bad flyer coz I can almost do all tricks in the book without crashing even once.....BUT the mishaps are all landings. The reason for this is I don't have access to pave roads and streets its all grass here.
Old 10-08-2006, 11:23 PM
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oldpops
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

eugenefelisco: 10 gear boxes? 5 brushless? Should have gone with a brushless outrunner like the himax 2812-650 with a prop saver.
Old 10-09-2006, 12:32 AM
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Crash One
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

I fly in a club where everyone knows everything. As a newbie (with only two years of flying a Firebird Outlaw with no moving surfaces), I listened to what was said and everyone suggested a Slow Stick for my first "real" plane, followed by an E-Starter. I buy planes on impulse and started with a Jinx 3D made of Depron and with 60-80* of surface deflection. My first three flights were crashes due to either mechanical or electrical malfunctions. After sorting out those issues, I can now do just about what I want to with it. I figured start hard and work backwards.

My second build was the F/Flex YAK 55 a couple of weeks ago. The stock motor had decent power but I had issues with the recommended brushed ESC. There was no way to program "Brake Off". First flight was a little twitchy and on landing I got about a foot off the deck and chopped the power and flaired to a gentle stop. That resulted in the prop stopping vertically and grabbing the grass. The whole front, back to the stick mount broke off and the battery came out the side. I glued everything back and poked my finger through the wing while checking the C/G.

My second flight was full of stunts in the 15 mph wind and I again made an almost perfect landing causing a crack in the wing. The prop saver is under so much tension it can't deflect on landing. That cost me a cowl. I like the concept and I bought it for the advertised durability... which it does not live up to. I opened my toy box and went with a brushless geared Himax, a CC 25 ESC and the same prop. It benched at 190 watts at 17 amps.

I've now got a complaint in with Great Planes regarding the ESC and the YAK through my local hobby shop. The brushless setup results in great flights but no matter how easily it lands, I now crush the gearbox bushings and wallow out the spinners. I've just ordered some threaded shafts to where I can hopefully land on a GWS prop and snap the prop instead of the plane.

Tomorrow I plan to try landing inverted to see if that helps since it'll put almost everything on top out of the way. If that doesn't help, I'll try catching the dang thing.

It's not you...it's the YAK 55. I bought mine the second day the hobby shop had it and it almost seems to be dry-rotted. I can land the Jinx inverted or even pretty hard without any damage to the Depron, but the YAK 55 has yet to survive a flight.
Old 10-09-2006, 03:08 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane


ORIGINAL: oldpops

eugenefelisco: 10 gear boxes? 5 brushless? Should have gone with a brushless outrunner like the himax 2812-650 with a prop saver.
Yup thats all true. With my LHS just 3 miles from home I bought 5 gearboxes at one time. Yes I also dismantled a himax also and all my set-ups have prop savers. Prop savers didn't work at all if I'm not breakin props, I bent shafts. And I can't remember how many GWS props I broke but it was too many to count.
Old 10-09-2006, 06:08 AM
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mcoulter
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

Thanks folks for bringing this thread back to life. Crash One, I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone...

I'm inching closer to a replacement to the yak and what I think I'll get is a Multiplex Space Scooter. From what I've read it's underpowered but I just want a basic, durable flyer with ailerons. Any thoughts or comments on this?
Old 10-09-2006, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

One more comment about my present setup...I now have to back out of the power to pull out of a wide open dive. The tail flexes so much the elevator servo doesn't have a chance I'll mix in flaps today with the elevator. Maybe both will help. It really is a decent flyer. Keep me in mind if you decide to trash the airframe as I'm sure mine will become harder to fly with each new glue repair. I would never pay retail for another one or the spare parts! I got it to fly in the wind and because it's easy for these old eyes to see.
Old 10-09-2006, 11:12 AM
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Default RE: Newbie's regret -- I think I made a mistake w/2nd plane

The space scooter is great, has a folding prop for landings, but if I remember, no rudder. Havent had one personally but have read only great things, and came within an inch of buying one.

Personally, I would get the eStarter, as here anyway, its a heck of a lot cheaper and has rudder, aerilons and elevator, and is really quite easy to fly. Lots of dihedral, which you can remove later if you want to make it more aerobatic. Also takes quite a beating in the crash department. There are some good build threads for it also...

Mark

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