Snap rolls with gyros?
03-24-2013 | 04:18 PM
#26
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From: Jackson, MI
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">You can do knife edge safely at 3-5 m altitude with gyros on even if you have just 15-20 knife edge flights as all your knife edge experience :-) </span>
</div><div>I'm already doing knife-edge at 2m without gyros, in all kinds of wind, so what's the point?</div><div>
</div><div>I still don't see the OP's point on using gyro during a snap. What is the expected benefit or outcome? </div><div>
</div><div>We have guys at the field who try shortcuts to basic skills all the time. They eventually come to grief and get out of the hobby. They lacked the perseverance to learn and appreciate the hobby. </div><div>
</div><div>Don't get me wrong, I use technology as much as anyone. But I try to understand its impact or results before using it. I have been flying helis since gyros had springs
and thus understand their effect when on and off. </div><div></div><div>In fact, heli fliers have a saying: 'The best upgrade you can buy is more fuel. '</div><div>
</div>
03-24-2013 | 04:45 PM
#27
Senior Member
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Used to fly helis around 1970 before they had gyros. Not fun. You probably remenber the first gyros that were an elestric motor with a flywheel on it and the weight of the flywheel would wear out the motor bushings in no time "We've come a long ways baby"
03-24-2013 | 05:31 PM
#28
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RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Effectively 100% of high end or extreme heli flying is done with flybarless helis using 3 axis gyros. And those maneuvers are effectively impossible for most of us to perform! The skill levels are outrageous and they use gyros. And they compete with gyros.
I am not sure a good flying pattern ship would really benefit from a 3 axis gyro. I don't know yet. But flybarless systems and 3 axis gyros have revolutionized heli setup and made it easy for everyone to have a good flying heli so airplanes could probably benefit also.
A great video for learning snaps and many other maneuvers is the Andrew Jesky Osiris construction setup trim and flying video put out by Higher Plane productions, Precision Flight Volume 3, I know 3DHS has it. I wonder what he would have to say about all this?
I am not sure a good flying pattern ship would really benefit from a 3 axis gyro. I don't know yet. But flybarless systems and 3 axis gyros have revolutionized heli setup and made it easy for everyone to have a good flying heli so airplanes could probably benefit also.
A great video for learning snaps and many other maneuvers is the Andrew Jesky Osiris construction setup trim and flying video put out by Higher Plane productions, Precision Flight Volume 3, I know 3DHS has it. I wonder what he would have to say about all this?
03-24-2013 | 05:56 PM
#29
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RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
One of our club members was a member of the international competition pattern flyers and I doubt gyros would help him at all after seeing him practice flying.
03-24-2013 | 06:25 PM
#30
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From: surrey,
BC, CANADA
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
you will learn to fly smooth without it, if the gyro makes you look smooth you will just delay the learning to fly like a pro because you have to re learn to fly without assistance.
If you want to look good and are actually not, then the gyro can do that for you.
Its like leaving the training wheels on your bike.
Just my opnion, but dont know any good respected aerobatic pilots that need or use them.
Normal size rc aircraft wont need them, but have seen the benefits on the micro stuff as they are so sensitive
If you want to look good and are actually not, then the gyro can do that for you.
Its like leaving the training wheels on your bike.
Just my opnion, but dont know any good respected aerobatic pilots that need or use them.
Normal size rc aircraft wont need them, but have seen the benefits on the micro stuff as they are so sensitive
03-24-2013 | 06:50 PM
#31
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From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: nitro wing
...... if the gyro makes you look smooth you will just delay the learning to fly like a pro because you have to re learn to fly without assistance....
......
...... if the gyro makes you look smooth you will just delay the learning to fly like a pro because you have to re learn to fly without assistance....
......
Absolutely disagree with you as gyros helped me enter into new flying figures in a safe and relatively fast manner.
After that it was easy for me to enter into these figures w/o gyro and my scariness :-)
You have to try it before judging gyro usefulness ....
03-24-2013 | 07:34 PM
#32
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From: Weare,
NH
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Had one on a tail dragger that was squirrely on T.O. It was a great help. Yes, I've been flying for decades, way before computer radios. I just installed the HK 3 axis on a Yak 54 foamie. Haven't flown it yet, but I bet it will help with some manuevers. It can be shut off from the Tx.
Love to watch all the haters on here that haven't tried it, but are ready to condemn it, Whatever happened to "Don't knock it till ya tried it?"
One of the reasons I bought it is I like to tinker.
Just my $.02
Love to watch all the haters on here that haven't tried it, but are ready to condemn it, Whatever happened to "Don't knock it till ya tried it?"
One of the reasons I bought it is I like to tinker.
Just my $.02
03-24-2013 | 08:49 PM
#33
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From: surrey,
BC, CANADA
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Guess I am lucky that I dont need or want one. I Fly all kinds of aircraft from helis to jets to golden age, warbirds, civilian, scale to competition, aerobatic and 3D. Its been said that my flying in all categories is respected, so, no I am not going to instal a gyro in anything that is currently flying except the helis.
In the previous posts it was mentiond that the grasshopper pilot groundlooped after pulling the gyro, so to me that is a reverse learning curve with alot of potential of damage.
Guess we could sit here for weeks bickering, why bother, gyros wont do any harm if you want to start with them or use them all the time, but plenty of guys will fly with out them and fly exceptionally well.
In the previous posts it was mentiond that the grasshopper pilot groundlooped after pulling the gyro, so to me that is a reverse learning curve with alot of potential of damage.
Guess we could sit here for weeks bickering, why bother, gyros wont do any harm if you want to start with them or use them all the time, but plenty of guys will fly with out them and fly exceptionally well.
03-25-2013 | 08:13 AM
#36
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
FWIW- I now have five (5) models setup with the new 635 rx set at default in all of em -
all five are different in size and wing loading - they weigh from 5.5 pounds ( Splendor) to 12 ounces ( Zoom3)
ANY IMAC/ Pattern or simply silly maneuver can be done with no fighting from the "gyros" which are simply looking at last attitude and trying to maintain it till stick commands counter em.
Those who have not flown this setup typically have a misunderstanding of what it is actually doing.
Snaps- spins all work as before BUT recovery is better !
here are pics of models I have been flying with the system -as well as the VisionAire and yet unflown Splendor.
Could I fly any of em without the 635 - sure - but having flown with the setups I am hooked - the system adds that little bit of extra stability which help my lousy eysight see exactly what's up (or down).
I flew Pattern -IMAC and Quicky for years but a screwed up eye problem really made things difficult - this system is terrific
all five are different in size and wing loading - they weigh from 5.5 pounds ( Splendor) to 12 ounces ( Zoom3)
ANY IMAC/ Pattern or simply silly maneuver can be done with no fighting from the "gyros" which are simply looking at last attitude and trying to maintain it till stick commands counter em.
Those who have not flown this setup typically have a misunderstanding of what it is actually doing.
Snaps- spins all work as before BUT recovery is better !
here are pics of models I have been flying with the system -as well as the VisionAire and yet unflown Splendor.
Could I fly any of em without the 635 - sure - but having flown with the setups I am hooked - the system adds that little bit of extra stability which help my lousy eysight see exactly what's up (or down).
I flew Pattern -IMAC and Quicky for years but a screwed up eye problem really made things difficult - this system is terrific
03-25-2013 | 08:42 AM
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From: Va Beach, VA
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: akouzmit
I have couple questions for “snap rolls” experts and the pilots who is using GYROs while performing aerobatics:
1) What if I will setup 3 gyros (like Futaba GYA431/GYA430) on ruder, elevator and as an option on ailerons?
Let’s assume I will bring the plane to “start” position for snap roll (nose up 45 degree) and start applying ONLY ailerons (w/o ruder and elevator).
Question: Will be ruder and elevator gyros do the job to keep plane in a good position to continue snap roll only by applying ailerons input and maintaining throttle input?
2) For snap roll in general => Will be it is better to remove “force generators” from the wing ends in order to easy off snap roll figure for the plane?
Thank you,
Andrei K.
I have couple questions for “snap rolls” experts and the pilots who is using GYROs while performing aerobatics:
1) What if I will setup 3 gyros (like Futaba GYA431/GYA430) on ruder, elevator and as an option on ailerons?
Let’s assume I will bring the plane to “start” position for snap roll (nose up 45 degree) and start applying ONLY ailerons (w/o ruder and elevator).
Question: Will be ruder and elevator gyros do the job to keep plane in a good position to continue snap roll only by applying ailerons input and maintaining throttle input?
2) For snap roll in general => Will be it is better to remove “force generators” from the wing ends in order to easy off snap roll figure for the plane?
Thank you,
Andrei K.
Think about it, if you had a computer program that controlled your radio and it would do every manuever perfectly, what would make you more proud, doing the stick control yourself or letting some program do it. It's more fun and challenging to stick it!
03-25-2013 | 10:44 AM
#39
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RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: airega1
Look, if you want to be one of the big dogs, ...
Look, if you want to be one of the big dogs, ...
Big Dogs don't hang out here on RCU
If you hang out here on RCU, you are not a Big Dog
Not everyone reading these forums wants to be a Big Dog
Not everyone reading these forums thinks they are Big Dogs
Flying with a gyro does not make you a Big Dog
Flying without a gyro does not make you a Big Dog
Telling someone not to fly with a gyro does not make you a Big Dog
Telling someone that they are not a Big Dog does not make you a Big Dog
I am sure I missed a few...
Kurt
03-25-2013 | 12:11 PM
#41
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From: Jackson, MI
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Kurt,<div>
</div><div>Well said!!</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>Maybe we should bring back snap roll switches while we're at it ! [8D]</div>
</div><div>Well said!!</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>Maybe we should bring back snap roll switches while we're at it ! [8D]</div>
04-07-2013 | 03:03 AM
#42
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Another way to put it is, the guys with tenacity, nerve and talent (ohhh and superman reflexes) will learn to fly any model, in any way, any in any conditions.
A below average flyer, with no real ability to progress, will cheat, and find other ways to compensate their lacking skills. Yes, that's what it is cheating, and i am sick and tired of all the bull**** retorik trying to defend thierselves and their motives.
If a plane wont do what it is suppossed to, take it back to the shop and get your money back.
Lastly, have the gyro crowd, ever considered when they fly someway really cool, and gain recognition, they are exactly the same cheat as an athlete taking drugs.
It's NOT cool to use gyros and it NEVER will be.
A below average flyer, with no real ability to progress, will cheat, and find other ways to compensate their lacking skills. Yes, that's what it is cheating, and i am sick and tired of all the bull**** retorik trying to defend thierselves and their motives.
If a plane wont do what it is suppossed to, take it back to the shop and get your money back.
Lastly, have the gyro crowd, ever considered when they fly someway really cool, and gain recognition, they are exactly the same cheat as an athlete taking drugs.
It's NOT cool to use gyros and it NEVER will be.
04-07-2013 | 04:34 AM
#43
Senior Member
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Funny, When Spektrum came out with the 2.4 system, the naysayers said it would never work. That little short ant. will never have any range, only for parkfliers. With the number of cellphone on 4.2 we'll be plagued with interference, plus a bagfull of other reasons to stay away from it. Look at where we are now. I grabbed one of the first ones around here and never looked back. But then I like to experiment with new stuff.
04-07-2013 | 06:15 AM
#44
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
Short antenna's were around long b4 the 2.4 system. Gyros also are not new technology, they have been around for decades. What is new is the increasing amount of rc pilots who want to look good (or feel good) without putting in the hours of hard work.
04-10-2013 | 07:33 PM
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From: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
I have not used a gyro in a number of years other than helis. It seems to me (by old memory) that when flying with a gyro, the beginners things such as turns/ bank's, one had to use the left thumb to make the turn. Seems like I remember the gyro would try to hold a position that made the nose not want to go in the direction of the turn. Now we all know most average people and beginners don't much use there left thumb other than to get to full throttle. So if memory is serving me correct would a gyro be of some help to get the left thumb into the game quicker therefore teaching better skills that would bring forth the ability to fly without the gyro at some point with some level of skill otherwise not learned.
Or am I getting confused with the heading lock feature on my heli gyros?</p>
04-11-2013 | 04:03 AM
#47
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
The very best gyro for IMAC or 3D airplane flying is the gyro between your ears, just forget about the gyro idea because there is just no replacement for getting out there and burning gas. You have to put in the time, so relax and have fun along the way or you just may miss the dance...
Bob
Bob
04-11-2013 | 07:39 AM
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From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: sensei
The very best gyro for IMAC or 3D airplane flying is the gyro between your ears, just forget about the gyro idea because there is just no replacement for getting out there and burning gas. You have to put in the time, so relax and have fun along the way or you just may miss the dance...
Bob
The very best gyro for IMAC or 3D airplane flying is the gyro between your ears, just forget about the gyro idea because there is just no replacement for getting out there and burning gas. You have to put in the time, so relax and have fun along the way or you just may miss the dance...
Bob
We all using modern cars, which have many micro- controllers in different parts of the car. They help us to steer well and drive safe with good fuel economy. We are taking it for granted.
At the same time no one is going to drive first Ford car with only mechanical stuff in and to master driving skills to match modern car performance :-).
It will be nonsense . . .
Why some pilots blaming other pilots who want to drive modern plane and benefit from modern equipment, which make flights safer and more enjoyable even if pilot doesn't have first class flying skills...?
We are not blaming elderly person who is driving Mazaretty for the luck of driving skills at his edge. We are not going to push him to train himself for months to become super driver before driving first generation retro Ford car.
He has easy way to use modern car with modern equipment to help him to drive safe with his limited driving skills.
Not every pilot is going to compete, but I believe over 90% pilots enjoying RC hobby just for fun, relaxation and some pleasure they can get with this hobby.
In today world sophisticated , but still affordable RC helicopters with autopilots can fly hands free over 2km from the pilot and come back to the start point with quite high accuracy.
There is no way you can stop technology coming into RC business.
We just need to adjust ourself and accept such trend.
I wish everybody happy flying.
Andrei K
04-11-2013 | 10:56 AM
#49
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From: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: acerc
I have not used a gyro in a number of years other than helis. It seems to me (by old memory) that when flying with a gyro, the beginners things such as turns/ bank's, one had to use the left thumb to make the turn. Seems like I remember the gyro would try to hold a position that made the nose not want to go in the direction of the turn. Now we all know most average people and beginners don't much use there left thumb other than to get to full throttle. So if memory is serving me correct would a gyro be of some help to get the left thumb into the game quicker therefore teaching better skills that would bring forth the ability to fly without the gyro at some point with some level of skill otherwise not learned.
Or am I getting confused with the heading lock feature on my heli gyros?</p>
I have not used a gyro in a number of years other than helis. It seems to me (by old memory) that when flying with a gyro, the beginners things such as turns/ bank's, one had to use the left thumb to make the turn. Seems like I remember the gyro would try to hold a position that made the nose not want to go in the direction of the turn. Now we all know most average people and beginners don't much use there left thumb other than to get to full throttle. So if memory is serving me correct would a gyro be of some help to get the left thumb into the game quicker therefore teaching better skills that would bring forth the ability to fly without the gyro at some point with some level of skill otherwise not learned.
Or am I getting confused with the heading lock feature on my heli gyros?</p>
Thank's
04-11-2013 | 12:23 PM
#50
RE: Snap rolls with gyros?
ORIGINAL: akouzmit
Let's look at Gyro usage from philosophical point of view w/o offending each other :-).
We all using modern cars, which have many micro- controllers in different parts of the car. They help us to steer well and drive safe with good fuel economy. We are taking it for granted.
At the same time no one is going to drive first Ford car with only mechanical stuff in and to master driving skills to match modern car performance :-).
It will be nonsense . . .
Why some pilots blaming other pilots who want to drive modern plane and benefit from modern equipment, which make flights safer and more enjoyable even if pilot doesn't have first class flying skills...?
We are not blaming elderly person who is driving Mazaretty for the luck of driving skills at his edge. We are not going to push him to train himself for months to become super driver before driving first generation retro Ford car.
He has easy way to use modern car with modern equipment to help him to drive safe with his limited driving skills.
Not every pilot is going to compete, but I believe over 90% pilots enjoying RC hobby just for fun, relaxation and some pleasure they can get with this hobby.
In today world sophisticated , but still affordable RC helicopters with autopilots can fly hands free over 2km from the pilot and come back to the start point with quite high accuracy.
There is no way you can stop technology coming into RC business.
We just need to adjust ourself and accept such trend.
I wish everybody happy flying.
Andrei K
ORIGINAL: sensei
The very best gyro for IMAC or 3D airplane flying is the gyro between your ears, just forget about the gyro idea because there is just no replacement for getting out there and burning gas. You have to put in the time, so relax and have fun along the way or you just may miss the dance...
Bob
The very best gyro for IMAC or 3D airplane flying is the gyro between your ears, just forget about the gyro idea because there is just no replacement for getting out there and burning gas. You have to put in the time, so relax and have fun along the way or you just may miss the dance...
Bob
We all using modern cars, which have many micro- controllers in different parts of the car. They help us to steer well and drive safe with good fuel economy. We are taking it for granted.
At the same time no one is going to drive first Ford car with only mechanical stuff in and to master driving skills to match modern car performance :-).
It will be nonsense . . .
Why some pilots blaming other pilots who want to drive modern plane and benefit from modern equipment, which make flights safer and more enjoyable even if pilot doesn't have first class flying skills...?
We are not blaming elderly person who is driving Mazaretty for the luck of driving skills at his edge. We are not going to push him to train himself for months to become super driver before driving first generation retro Ford car.
He has easy way to use modern car with modern equipment to help him to drive safe with his limited driving skills.
Not every pilot is going to compete, but I believe over 90% pilots enjoying RC hobby just for fun, relaxation and some pleasure they can get with this hobby.
In today world sophisticated , but still affordable RC helicopters with autopilots can fly hands free over 2km from the pilot and come back to the start point with quite high accuracy.
There is no way you can stop technology coming into RC business.
We just need to adjust ourself and accept such trend.
I wish everybody happy flying.
Andrei K
Bob
