Unless anyone minds, I'd like to start a Fiber Classics discussion here. Lots to learn and compare notes with.

Here are the first questions to 40% FC Extra 330s owners.

What have you found to be the best "reverse differential" for the ailerons. (degrees up and down).

Don... Thanks for starting the Fiberclassics topic. I picked up your notice on the IMAC read list. I have a 33% Fiberclassics Extra 330 that I plan to power with my DA-100 and have purchased a 2 into one PIFA canister for the DA. I purchased the canister from Dave Johnson at DA. He said they have had a slight problem with the rpm surging a little in the idle range using the single canister, but it didn't cause a problem in the mid or high range... we will see. Hope to have it in the air in a couple of months and will have comments on this and set up in general if anyone is interested.

Great to have you here Bill!!

I look forward to seeing that 330!!

Chris

Bill,

I just helped someone set up a 33% FC 330L with a DA100 (with mufflers). This was the best flying 33% Extra, in fact best flying 33% plane I have ever flown (for IMAC Sequences). The only way I could figure this is since the thing is basically popped out of milled tools, its pretty much flawless from the aerodynamic (balance) standpoint.

It needed 4 % opposite aileron and about 4% up elevator with rudder. It also needed just a bit of down elevator with idle. Engine thrust was perfect.

This plane tracked best in point rolls, rolling circles, snaps and lines. The plane was set up slightly nose heavy. Batteries on the firewall. We experimented some but ended up at negative 13% differential on the ailerons. You'll love yours.

Don

where did you get yours? is it the prepaint version in 330 colors or white?

I don't remember what the plane was, but it was an ARC somewhere around 27% with built up wing and fuse, with a smokin price tag. I saw this thing in then Fiber classic's booth at the Toledo show, kinda sittin off to the side. It looked like a new release( I mean these guys do molded planes right?), But wow here's this all built up scale aerobat like I've been dreamin about for the last 5 yrs just sittin there, waiting for me to do another flame job. What was it, and is it available?

airjeffro,

It was at the planes plus booth, the US importer for fiberclassics. Those were'nt fiberclassics kits. They are being made in Argentina by a new company started by Q Somenzini and a partner. They range from 25% to 37% Extra 300L's. They also had a Diablotin type kit at a good price. I don't know if they have them in yet or not. I have several on order and am supposed to pick them up at Joe Nall.

Tracy

What is the websit for (PLANES PLUS)????

Planes Plus web site

http://www.planesplus.com

There's not any info about the new planes on it. You'll have to call or Email for info.

Tracy

Say Don:
Could you explain the term negative differential?
Also, what is the theory behind negative differential?
What type of design needs negative diff and what type needs positive differential? Is it related to wing placement?

Neg differential is aileron goes down more than up. Thats because on the FC, the ailerons are top-hinged.

Does Quiques company have a web site.

Well I got a 40% FC Extra 330 flying today- finally. It was the end of last August when I started the process, and its been round-about, but I do have one FC Extra flying. Yes! It flies pretty well. The astonishing thing is, I realize Jason was right- the FC 40% is so light it torque rolls at three clicks of throttle. It makes it very difficult to back down to the ground, basically going between idle to 2 clicks to back it down. I suppose I'll set up another throttle curve for 3D. By the way, 3D is great even with the forward CG. It feels like I'm flying a feather. Everything is light on the controls, stable and predictable. It does have the familiar "Extra Design" wing rock during positive alpha but if anyone has licked this (without radio mixing) I'd love to hear their ideas.

Thanks for the advice about mounting the rx's. I used a rx pillow by JTEC. Its velcro'd down. Thanks for the advice everyone who responded.

The plane tracks lines very well, probably best of any plane I've flown. Negative snaps are great, positive snaps to the left are good, positive snaps to the right are difficult, particularly vertical snaps. The airplane does not want to break to the right positive.

Has anyone out there had that experience?

Anyhow, going from a 48 Lb plane to a 34Lb airplane with roughly the same thrust is going to take some serious adjusting!

The 46% Goldsmith CAP did rolling circles better better, particularly one rollers, due to the rudder authority. It also did positive alpha much better. However the Extra presents better in lines. Its interesting to see each design having its advantages.

A couple of JR notes. I love the JR programming, I was able to adjust while I was flying during the first two flights- mix for rudder to aileron and elevator, dual rates and control throw; and I am a novice at programming computer radios.

Second If anyone is interested in the matchbox setup, here is how I did it- I have one matchbox in each wing to adjust the aileron servos. Elevators were set up with screw-horns, so I adjusted them manually and did not use matchboxes there, but I used one matchbox on the rudder with 4 JR 8411 servos. I have a second switch from my battery going directly into the matchbox. The setup seems to work well.

See you at the Nall.

P.S. where is a good place to stay?

Don

Well it was forcast (as I was driving to the field), 20 gusting to 28, which
was great because I got to test out the FC in the wind. OK, now I know what
Mike and Andy were talking about the little strip they put on the rudder.
The plane was very sensitive in the wind and seemed to get bumped around
quite a bit. The theory is if one puts a 1/8 strip on the TE of the rudder,
it damps out the yaw. After working hard at the sticks, and increasing the
expo to about 30% on aileron, elevator and about 45% on rudder, it seemed to
settle down a bunch.

I also went to a smaller prop, 30x12, that seemed to help the snaps some,
and then went with 10% additional aileron, 20% less rudder throw on low
rate, and a little less rudder to opposite aileron mix. This seemed to do
the trick so it does acceptable positive snaps to the right. Negative snaps
are even better too. Guys, thanks for the advice on this.

The smaller prop also helped with 3D and torque rolling. now its 4 to 5
clicks to hover, which turns out to be about one-fifth to quarter throttle.
But throttle resolution is much better (damped), I can move up or down at
least a couple of extra clicks to maneuver the plane. Noticed a lot of left
rudder needed when transitioning from high alpha to hover. May have just
been the wind. I think it calmed down to about 5 to 7 mph on the ground by
this point of the day.

Now I'll save the best for last. I ran the plane out of gas on the last
couple of flights. After the engine quit I did several pop ups and upright
elevators and back to regular (gliding) with almost no transition. The
plane is so light I think you could probably almost 3D it all the way to the
runway the push the nose down, flair and land. It really opens up some
possibilities. Dead-stick 3D, wow.

Thats it for now,
Don

For those flying or have flown the FC 40% Extra, a few questions to compare notes.

Where is your CG- I put some tail weight in on mine so the CG is about where the recommened point (slightly in front of the wing tube).

At this CG range, I realized tonight that the plane requires very little down elevator while inverted during normal maneuvering speed. On 45 degree up, and then rolling to knife edge, the nose drops off just a bit. How is yours set up for optimum flying?

Next question, does your plane require any aileron trim? If so how much and in what direction?

Thanks,
Don

hey there everybody

I am looking for a 35% IMAC model and after reading everything that has been posted on here it seems that the majority of people are leaning towards the FC/Composite ARF extra 330L.
People are saying that it flies sequence like its on rails, but what is it like at 3D??? (especially harriers) does it get bad wing rock or is it solid as a rock?

Check out the Giant Scale forum; there are a number of thread on this plane. It is a nice plane for 3D though.

Wow, its been over a year since this posting started. I will say that the 40 % Extra exhibits excellent 3D characteristics, and is quite stable in both upright and inverted harriers. Very little wing wag and I've come down on the learning curve tremendously with this airplane. Interesting, I've been tracking the 33% version as well, and the pilot has moved the CG back quite a bit. Yes, he has the hovering and torque rolling down to about 3 to 4 feet consistently, and he (Bill) does not show much wing waggle on the 35% either. Trade off is is does not feel as locked in during sequences with the cg that far back.

One note for comparison though, the best (locked in wing during 3D) was the Hangar 9 Cap 232 I've flown (33%). Each aircraft design has strengths, pick your favorite.

Don,
You mentioned eliminating wing rock without mixing. What trimming variables did you alter to reduce this? I'm finishing up the 33% percent now and want to gather up trimming info.
Thanks
RickP

I am almost done with mine 33% FC Extra and need some help setting up.

Notice you stated that it needs about 4% up elev. with rudder - how much rudder is that...I mean at what stick possition of the rudder do I start adding 4% elev.

Sorry for the dumb question but it's my first IMAC plane.

Any other pointers will be greatly appreciated

Thanks

The 4% mix is start to finish.

Check out the latest RCM, its got all my rates, expos, and mixes in an article up front. I I recall the 33% is very similar in the mixing arena.

The throws in that article states should get you to the optimum non-rocking wings. Also, do the following for damping the wings oscillating- release elevator a little, then put in and hold a little aileron while putting the elevator back in. Its like a mini-pop up. it cleans the sloppy air off the wings.

Cheers, Don

Don

I have the third scale version.
Its a great flyer but will not take any abuse.
On my first landing, which was not heavy at all, the u/c delaminated, damaging the fuse and one wing section.
I am waiting to find out what is happening with it from fc in Germany yet.
new fuse and wing will be nice.
Undercarriage is crap though.

Would buy another.

Both mine and my mate Pauls 33% ers have both delaminated the U/C, and they haven't been heavy landings either.

Has anyone got any tips on getting more down aileron. I'm getting no where near what FC recommend.

Has anyone got an optimum C of G which is a good combination of 3D and pattern. Mine seems excellent in 3D but a bit unstable in pattern, it might just be the setup but any comments appreciated.

Those of you who have the undercarriage delaminated - are they all carbon fiber, or the older version of carbon, laminated with core material?

I did read somewhere that the older version was like that.

Thanks

The older one is has a top carbon skin on what looks like a balsa core. The lower skin is probably glass with a black pigment. Definitly not carbon.

3D stein, (or anyone in the UK) if you need another set, get in touch with Iain at IAD designs, he made mine up to his usual high standard.
No bother with them since.