WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
02-19-2004 | 07:47 PM
#1
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From: lancaster,
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WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I jsut finished my UCANDO .46. I put on a OS .61fx with a 14x3wide prop. This is a new engine so I thought I would break it in before I went out to fly. So I fuel it up, put on the glow ignitor, bump it with the starter it fires up and tore the firewall right off of the plane. Is this a manufactures defect? What can I do. Can this be fixed? What can I do? Is this my fault?
Photo 1
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Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4
02-19-2004 | 08:16 PM
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From: Salmon ArmBritish Columbia, CANADA
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Well at lteast it broke while on the ground. If the engine is within the reccomended size range on the box GP should replace that for you in a hearbeat. If you are outside the reccomended range you may have to arm-wrestle them a little. I think this is an obvious case of a build quality problem regardless of what was hanging on the front and a good example of why even the best ARFS should be inspected carefully before flying.
02-19-2004 | 08:54 PM
#3
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Not that you built it wrong or anything but I always drip thin CA anywhere I can reach. Sometimes they skimp on glue (hey they don't plan on flying it so why should they care?). On my Funtana I dripped CA all over the firewall area and all the joints in the nose. It really makes it a lot stronger. They miss a lot of spots I think. The 60 engine is big for that plane (heavy). You should really reinforce the firewall before installing a heavy engine on it like that. I'd pin it if possible. There really isn't a whole lot of meat in that firewall if you look closely. Maybe use thick CA and some big square balsa stock (or ply) all around the inside of the firewall and use toothpicks to pin the outside nose of the fuse to that new balsa on the inside. Use a little drill to make the pin holes. Use thick CA for pinning. Use a lot of thick CA on the perimeter of the firewall when you glue it in before pinning. Finish up with thin CA on the inside to get any places that it will wick into.
Actually after looking at your pic's again you could easily repair it right now the way I said above. You have perfect access to the entire inside of the firewall now. I'd drill the pin holes in those square balsa beams running along the side and top of the fuse.
Joe
Actually after looking at your pic's again you could easily repair it right now the way I said above. You have perfect access to the entire inside of the firewall now. I'd drill the pin holes in those square balsa beams running along the side and top of the fuse.
Joe
02-19-2004 | 09:04 PM
#4
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Same thing happened to a buddies LANIER LASER 200 a few years back with a G62 on it. I like to see the fuse sides go forward of the firewall with some triangle stock... even pinning is no good with only 1/8" edge distance on the fuse sides.
02-19-2004 | 09:06 PM
#5
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
ORIGINAL: mithrandir
Same thing happened to a buddies LANIER LASER 200 a few years back with a G62 on it. I like to see the fuse sides go forward of the firewall with some triangle stock... even pinning is no good with only 1/8" edge distance on the fuse sides.
Same thing happened to a buddies LANIER LASER 200 a few years back with a G62 on it. I like to see the fuse sides go forward of the firewall with some triangle stock... even pinning is no good with only 1/8" edge distance on the fuse sides.
I wonder if you pushed on the gas tank really hard when you installed it and broke the (weak) firewall loose? Notice the wing looks like it's pushing on the tank too.
02-19-2004 | 09:27 PM
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From: surrey,
BC, CANADA
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I find this totally unacceptable.people can really get hurt when something like this happens.I hope this is an isolated case.I know people have bolted on 90's on this ARF.I guess after mounting your engine,one should pick it up by the motor and mount and put some stress and G's on it.pinning,dowling,screwing,tri angle stocking and regluing etc,are probably recomended on all ARF's
02-19-2004 | 09:54 PM
#7
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I wish you luck on getting a replacement but I will be surprised if that
happens. This airplane was designed for a .32 to a .50 sized engine and
in several places in the assembly manual it states in bold letters - DO NOT
use any engine larger than recommended. There is a disclaimer in bold
letters surrounded by a bold wide black border stating if any modifications
are done or if any engine larger than recommended size is used all
warranties are void.
Fortunately it looks like an easy fix. Just be glad as someone stated earlier
in this thread its better it happened on the ground than in the air. Look at it
this way, the firewall needed to be reinforced anyway and its easier to do it
now than before.
tommy s
happens. This airplane was designed for a .32 to a .50 sized engine and
in several places in the assembly manual it states in bold letters - DO NOT
use any engine larger than recommended. There is a disclaimer in bold
letters surrounded by a bold wide black border stating if any modifications
are done or if any engine larger than recommended size is used all
warranties are void.
Fortunately it looks like an easy fix. Just be glad as someone stated earlier
in this thread its better it happened on the ground than in the air. Look at it
this way, the firewall needed to be reinforced anyway and its easier to do it
now than before.
tommy s
02-19-2004 | 10:26 PM
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From: Nashville,
TN
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Hey But dont let this discourage you, just remember when you get ready to put a bigger engine on a plane that does not recommend them, juts make sure you pin, or use some aluminum angle on the firewall just so you want have to go through this again..
Randy
Randy
02-19-2004 | 10:44 PM
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From: lancaster,
CA
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I think I will replace the firewall. Then I might put a 4 stroke on it. What would you recommend? If I buy a 4stroke does it need to have a pump or not? Thanks.
02-20-2004 | 01:04 AM
#10
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I'm not so sure you need to replace the firewall. I think I read somewhere
that Chip Hyde uses a 1/8" firewall in his Hydeout pattern plane and that's a
heck of a lot bigger than your U-Can-Do with a lot bigger engine. You just
need to have more reinforcement and more area to glue to. From your
pictures it looks like it wasn't glued to too much of the fuselage. I've got a
SuperTigre Bluehead 60 on my Matrix 40 but I triangle braced it and put some
glass cloth in the corners behind the firewall. Also did the wing hold down plates.
tommy s
that Chip Hyde uses a 1/8" firewall in his Hydeout pattern plane and that's a
heck of a lot bigger than your U-Can-Do with a lot bigger engine. You just
need to have more reinforcement and more area to glue to. From your
pictures it looks like it wasn't glued to too much of the fuselage. I've got a
SuperTigre Bluehead 60 on my Matrix 40 but I triangle braced it and put some
glass cloth in the corners behind the firewall. Also did the wing hold down plates.
tommy s
02-20-2004 | 10:06 AM
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From: Athol,
ID
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I posted on you fuel problem then found this.....I suspected you had a UCD. Don't be discouraged and fix the firewall use 30 min epoxy and pin as suggested. Pre drill (pilot holes over the larger blocks) and make sure it all matches then epoxy. Think you just got a bad job on yours.
I have a Mag 91 FS on mine with no problem so far, had a 61 on first and it was somewhat lacking at least for me. If you go with a FS use at least a 70+ size.
I have a Mag 91 FS on mine with no problem so far, had a 61 on first and it was somewhat lacking at least for me. If you go with a FS use at least a 70+ size.
02-20-2004 | 01:12 PM
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From: Johannesburg, SOUTH AFRICA
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Oh Dear!!!!!!
I can tell you what probably happened. I don't know if this is your first inverted motor but you probably filled the head with fuel(flooded) and then hit the solid fuel with your starter and the motor could not turn over. This is called "hydraulic lock". This is why I dont like inverted motors. Four strokes are much better inverted as they have valves that can drain the fuel.
We must always turn over inverted motors by hand(without glow) to make sure that the head has not filled up with fuel before putting the starter onto it. If you feel it is solid, pick up the plane and turn it to the side with exhaust outlet facing the ground and rock the prop backwards and forward. You will then have fuel running out the exhaust. Once you can flick the motor over by hand, you can then safely try starting the motor again. This problem is compounded by new motors because we tend to start off with the needle valve wide open so lots of fuel can run through to the motor and your tank is probably way above the needle alve so the fuel will just run into the motor.
As far as the repair of the airframe goes, it can be easy if done properly. Use a good 30 minute epoxy and just tape the firewall back in place. The design on funfly's is generally not to make the firewall too strong and rather pick up a good motor after a mishap than trash the motor and have the firewall intact. Remember you will be doing plenty of low level stuff and the ground is unforgiving.
The classics say " Out of all the altercations between aircraft and ground - the ground has yet to loose one"
Good luck with your repair.
I can tell you what probably happened. I don't know if this is your first inverted motor but you probably filled the head with fuel(flooded) and then hit the solid fuel with your starter and the motor could not turn over. This is called "hydraulic lock". This is why I dont like inverted motors. Four strokes are much better inverted as they have valves that can drain the fuel.
We must always turn over inverted motors by hand(without glow) to make sure that the head has not filled up with fuel before putting the starter onto it. If you feel it is solid, pick up the plane and turn it to the side with exhaust outlet facing the ground and rock the prop backwards and forward. You will then have fuel running out the exhaust. Once you can flick the motor over by hand, you can then safely try starting the motor again. This problem is compounded by new motors because we tend to start off with the needle valve wide open so lots of fuel can run through to the motor and your tank is probably way above the needle alve so the fuel will just run into the motor.
As far as the repair of the airframe goes, it can be easy if done properly. Use a good 30 minute epoxy and just tape the firewall back in place. The design on funfly's is generally not to make the firewall too strong and rather pick up a good motor after a mishap than trash the motor and have the firewall intact. Remember you will be doing plenty of low level stuff and the ground is unforgiving.
The classics say " Out of all the altercations between aircraft and ground - the ground has yet to loose one"
Good luck with your repair.
02-20-2004 | 01:25 PM
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From: London, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
The 61 is big for that plane, plus they tend to bite in my experience (only engine I have owned to throw a prop, and had a nasty habit of kicking when new).
02-21-2004 | 11:02 AM
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From: vale of glam, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
If only you had fitted the recomended 40 - 51 size engine you would be ok. As the engine is way out side the range you wont get a thing from GP.
02-21-2004 | 12:06 PM
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From: lancaster,
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
You are correct. GP will do nothing for me. I will repair this firewall and chalk it up to a bad experience. No big deal.
02-21-2004 | 12:14 PM
#16
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
um, in an inverted 2 stroke, fuel will just run out the carb onto the ground if the throttle is left open and the fuel level is above carb.
sean
sean
ORIGINAL: Zaney1
Oh Dear!!!!!!
I can tell you what probably happened. I don't know if this is your first inverted motor but you probably filled the head with fuel(flooded) and then hit the solid fuel with your starter and the motor could not turn over. This is called "hydraulic lock". This is why I dont like inverted motors. Four strokes are much better inverted as they have valves that can drain the fuel.
We must always turn over inverted motors by hand(without glow) to make sure that the head has not filled up with fuel before putting the starter onto it. If you feel it is solid, pick up the plane and turn it to the side with exhaust outlet facing the ground and rock the prop backwards and forward. You will then have fuel running out the exhaust. Once you can flick the motor over by hand, you can then safely try starting the motor again. This problem is compounded by new motors because we tend to start off with the needle valve wide open so lots of fuel can run through to the motor and your tank is probably way above the needle alve so the fuel will just run into the motor.
As far as the repair of the airframe goes, it can be easy if done properly. Use a good 30 minute epoxy and just tape the firewall back in place. The design on funfly's is generally not to make the firewall too strong and rather pick up a good motor after a mishap than trash the motor and have the firewall intact. Remember you will be doing plenty of low level stuff and the ground is unforgiving.
The classics say " Out of all the altercations between aircraft and ground - the ground has yet to loose one"
Good luck with your repair.
Oh Dear!!!!!!
I can tell you what probably happened. I don't know if this is your first inverted motor but you probably filled the head with fuel(flooded) and then hit the solid fuel with your starter and the motor could not turn over. This is called "hydraulic lock". This is why I dont like inverted motors. Four strokes are much better inverted as they have valves that can drain the fuel.
We must always turn over inverted motors by hand(without glow) to make sure that the head has not filled up with fuel before putting the starter onto it. If you feel it is solid, pick up the plane and turn it to the side with exhaust outlet facing the ground and rock the prop backwards and forward. You will then have fuel running out the exhaust. Once you can flick the motor over by hand, you can then safely try starting the motor again. This problem is compounded by new motors because we tend to start off with the needle valve wide open so lots of fuel can run through to the motor and your tank is probably way above the needle alve so the fuel will just run into the motor.
As far as the repair of the airframe goes, it can be easy if done properly. Use a good 30 minute epoxy and just tape the firewall back in place. The design on funfly's is generally not to make the firewall too strong and rather pick up a good motor after a mishap than trash the motor and have the firewall intact. Remember you will be doing plenty of low level stuff and the ground is unforgiving.
The classics say " Out of all the altercations between aircraft and ground - the ground has yet to loose one"
Good luck with your repair.
02-21-2004 | 11:22 PM
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From: lancaster,
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RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Reason I chose the .61 is that it was the only thing I had laying around. I need to start buying 4 strokes but have not decieded what to get. Saito, OS or what? Whats good what's not?
02-22-2004 | 12:37 AM
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From: Fremont, CA
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
Oh, I just rembered 
that I was building a Global Freestyle 3D .40 with an OS 61 fx in the nose. Should I reenforce anything to keep an accident similar to this from happening?
Thanks
3D-kid330
that I was building a Global Freestyle 3D .40 with an OS 61 fx in the nose. Should I reenforce anything to keep an accident similar to this from happening?Thanks
3D-kid330
02-22-2004 | 08:36 PM
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From: Athol,
ID
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I have or have had OS, Saito and Magnum. They are all good, I really like the Magnum for the price and I have three. The 91 is about 1 oz more than a 61-75 2 stroke from my findings. I still think you would be advised to obtain a regulator. The 2 stroke was misarable and continually flooded, quit, etc. The 4 stroke was much better but not great....
04-30-2004 | 12:56 PM
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From: Grove City, OH
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
I run a Saito .72 on my UCANDO. Never thrown a prop, don't need a pump or regulator. I have no problems, purrs like a kitten. Hovers about 1/2 throttle. Sweet flyer.
You'll see this in every UCANDO thread but I'll say it anyway, you need to reinforce the landing gear with fiberglass. It is very weak and in light of your firewall issue, it would make me leery not to.
I mounted both elevator servos in the tail and the rudder on a pull pull system in the throttle servo tray and mounted the throttle on its side in the main compartment and mounted the battery over the tank. 6V 1400. Balanced dead on.
just FYI.
GET THAT THING IN THE AIR!! It's a great flyer, you'll love it.
You'll see this in every UCANDO thread but I'll say it anyway, you need to reinforce the landing gear with fiberglass. It is very weak and in light of your firewall issue, it would make me leery not to.
I mounted both elevator servos in the tail and the rudder on a pull pull system in the throttle servo tray and mounted the throttle on its side in the main compartment and mounted the battery over the tank. 6V 1400. Balanced dead on.
just FYI.
GET THAT THING IN THE AIR!! It's a great flyer, you'll love it.
05-01-2004 | 05:09 PM
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From: blender land, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: WHAT HAPPENED, Photos inside, HELP
laco,i would probably check that the prop is balanced,i use apc all the time and they are good,but just double check that balance cos that will tear the motor out under vibration.
