I wanna put the Moki 2.1 into the Great Planes Patty Wagstaff Extra 300...Hoping that the performance will be outrageous. Had first thought of putting the 2.1 into a Dave Patrick Edge 540 but am real impressed with the Patty Extra. I know 'gas' is much cheaper but I'm not convinced that I like the sound of the gassers that I've seen.

What are your thoughts on this combo?...

Ps...is a pump or a cline regulator necessary for the big Moki?

I would highly recommend the Cline if you intend to hover on the deck or do any 3D stuff. I bought the Cline and it works great. The engine will run without it but not as reliably....in other words...why risk a flame out on such an expensive plane?

I totally intend to hover on the deck with the Moki!...There is one advertised (used) in Canada for $400 CDN which inludes a Brisson muffler and....a Perry Pump.
What's better the Pump, or the Cline Regulator?

WH

Ps...what do ya think about the big Moki in the Patty Wagstaff Extra?

The Cline regulator is better IMO.

I'd also suggest a glow driver especially if you're mounting the Moki inverted.

The Cline requires zero setup or adustment. It's a very simple system and it works perfectly. I've heard the pump requires tweaks and sometimes does not work well (not sure why but that's what I read here). The only thing is that you have to install the plumbing correctly for the Cline, just follow the instructions. Also use a good quality tank like Dubro or Sullivan and you're set.

If you intend to mount the Moki inverted, use the OS type F plug as Moki recommends in their manual.

I have changed all of the fuel lines to the 1/8 large size both externally and internally with a heavier clunker. I also secured the fuel lines to all barbs. The tank is Du-BRO 24oz centerlined to the carb, The tank is 7' from the tank fittings to the center of the carb.. I installed new 1/4 scale filter and fuel filler. I have tried the new Os plug #8 and the OS f plug. I was not able to start engine by hand with the plane in upright position however upon useing a starter the engine did run for a few seconds and then quit. The engine floods real easy if I prime it however it will not fire if I do not prime it and most of the time the proming floods the glow plug. I have opened the mixture control 2,3,4 turns with no noticable change in starting. The low end mixture has been tried at the even mark,1,2,3, clicks rich and 1,2,3 clicks lean. I am now down to the Exhaust manifold. I Think the J-Tec muffler is to small for this engine and is causing to much back pressure. I would order a new Bisson muffler but do not know which one to order. this is is the Sig 300XS 150 ARF, wing span 74-5/8, weight 12-13 lbs. The muffler that I have is the Bisson Model # 1180 for the Moki 180. With the configuration fo the 300 cowl, The muffler sits 1/4" too high and the pipes are forward instead of aft. I have studied the Bisson line of mufflers and still don't know what to order. I don't have to have a Bisson. I took the cowl off and instaslled the 180 Moki bissen muffler just to see if it would make a diff. No change. cannot get the engine to run for any period of time. Please advise. Any suggestions you might have. I am dpown to the installation of a cline regulater.
Ron.

I have a wagstaff with the moki 2.10 and a cline regulator, and to say the least it was a nightmare to get it to run correctly. After many many phone calls to people that said they knew how to fix my problems, I finally talked with someone that did know something about it. The trick is to get the engine started and running rich, then adjust the idle mixture while the engine is running at mid-throttle. Don't adjust for a clean smooth idle, adjust for mid-range throttle, and then everything started to work out fine, easy starts, no more dead sticks, and even nice low rpm idles. I credit this engine and cline regulator for breaking my right hand ring finger, while trying to get the darn thing started before I finally got the problem fixed, so be careful. The plane flys really nice now!

I really appreciate your responce. I have been having problems trying to figure out this site as to how to post and get answers. I thought I knew something about postings however this site has really got me stumped. Oh well, on to the crux of the matter. You are right about the be-carefuil suggestion with this engine. It got my thumb on a kick back right at the thump nail yesterday and it is a little sore. I did get the engine running by pure luck yesterday(hand flipping) however it was running backwards. As a thought, I also have checked the spray bar and it is in the right position. I have been all over the RCU sight and have read each and every suggestion as you have by phone calls and the opinions run rampid. This sport is not an exact science for fixing engine problems. I have tried various plugs also, just to see what the outcome would be and it did not matter which type of glow plug I used "at this point". I have also installed the remote glow plug feature. You are the first to suggest to me the idle mixture control adjustment and I could not find anything in the strings that talk about that. I do not have a manual for this engine. I bought it on RCU from a person that claimed it only ran once. I wonder what happened to the manual! I am still waiting for a reply from him. The engine will not turn over with a starter. I am going to also try hooking up my golfcart starter I converted to an engine starter to my truck battery to see if I can keep it running. One other thing; The glow plug gets flooded with fuel at the slightest rich mode because of the inverted position when trying to get fuel to the cylender head. I have come to the concusion that a cline regulater is a must for this engine especially if inverted. I have 4 questions for you if you don't mind. 1- where you able to get your engine running without the Cline reg? 2- what do you recommend for a glow plug? 3- what fuel are you useing. I am useing 5% as recommended by most people I have talked to. 4- Can you tell me how many turns on the mixture control to try and get it started. I believe your suggestion will work. I won't know until next tues. Your suggestions makes sense. I will keep you posted. Thanks.
Ron.

T28Ron, If it were my engine and I had bought it used like you did, I would go back to step one in the break in procedure. Especially since you say the previous owner said it had only been run once. I would remove the engine from the plane and put it into a mount, but first i would pull the head to make sure everything inside the cylinder was fine. Last winter I burnt a piston in my moki 2.1 after I stupidly thought I could switch to 10% nitro with no added oil. It burnt a little of the piston off right behind the exhaust port, no cylinder damage, and the engine would turn over, although it would not run for very long. I finally discovered the problem and replaced the piston and everything is fine now. Anyway, back to break-in--Maybe the guy you bought the engine from didn't breakin the engine correctly if at all. So, I would mount the engine upright in the mount, I use 5% nitro with 16% oil content and then add 2 more ounces of oil --I used Klotz Super Techniplate 2-stroke racing synthetic with 20% castor to the gallon of fuel. If you are using the cline regulator, then fill the tank with the fuel mixture, then pull all the fuel through the cline regulator by using you fuel pump, this should make sure there are no particles clogging the cline. Next refill the tank, make sure the cline regulator is close to the carb, mine is about 3/4" away. make sure the idle adjustment marks are lined up, and then open the fuel mixture (needle valve) to about 4-5 complete turns open.You will have to run the engine this way with the glow plug connected to a power source until breakin is complete. Run the engine for a few minutes to heat it up, then shut it down and let it cool, keep doing this 2-3 minute run-cool down cycle for the firt two tanks, then allow the engine to run longer (still rich) until you've gone through a gallon of fuel.These moki engines take a long time to breakin. Breakin should be done with a 20x10 prop. I am now flying with a 20X8 prop, and I use pro-zinger wood props.My needle valve is opened to 2 clicks under 3 complete turns open and my idle adjustment is just a hair to the right of the mark. But, since I am in New Mexico at an elevation of 4000+ ft, I believe my adjustments will be different then yours in peoria Arizona. Remember after breakin, to make the needle valve adjustments to get a good responsive mid- throttle running engine, get everything running good at mid-throttle, then if you still don't have a good idle tweak the idle adjustment a little, but always go back and make sure your midrange is perfect. Hope this helps!! let me know how it worked out because most people on this site don't have to deal with these high desert conditions.

thank you so much. It appears that you and a couple of others know what you are talking about. I will let you know as soon as I get it going. Where can I purchase the cline on line and what kind of plug do you recommend. Thanks.
Ron.

ASP3D: I thought I responed to you but don't see it so I will try again. Everything you say, makes sense and I know it is going to work. I will report back to you as soon as I can. I don't know if it will be next week as I have a lot of honey do's prior to going to hospital next thurs. I will be laid up for a couple of weeks but will get back to you. Can you recommend a glow plug and where can I purchase the regulater. I see there are 2 sites on the web. One is Iron bay model company and the other is Cline. The one from iron bay is aluminum and the cline is plastic. The Iron bay one is $43.00 and the Cline is $60.00. I really hate to be a bother. Thanks.
Ron.

Hey ASP3D,

How ya doin'?...I have the impression that the big Moki 2.1 will be a very different experience from my great luck with smaller O.S.-brand (ringed) plane and helicopter engines. I've really enjoyed the ease of operation thus far, and was hoping that a huge version of a glow engine - like the MOKI, would offer the same experience.

I still want the Moki, but am slightly intimidated now. When all is said and done, and the engine has been correctly broken-in over time, is it worth it? Does it provide 'huge' power? How does the 'Patty' perform?

Thanks.
WH

I'm using an os#8 plug. Is it the best plug for this engine? I don't know but it works for me. I can't tell you which regulator to buy because I only have experience with the cline, so you'll have to make your own decision on that one. I also don't know where to get one on-line because I bought the three that I own from an rc store in albuquerque NM. As far as power is concerned, ie.. a moki 2.1 in the Patty Wag... I would have to say it does alright, but not quite what I expected. If I had a chance to sell some of my other engines or trade out for a gasoline engine that is what I would do for the patty. I put a smoke system in my patty with the moki 2.10 and it smokes ok but I think it may also decrease the performance of the engine even with the smoke off, because of the obstruction in the carb.Since breaking my finger last year, I haven't flown the Patty as much as I would like, but I know she could preform a heck of alot better with a gasoline engine. As far as I'm concerned, an os1.60 is the biggest glow engine I would ever buy again. They take alot of abuse and can make the right size/weight plane do some pretty awesome tricks. Any plane that requires more than the os1.60 and I would go to gasoline.I really love my Dave Patrick Ultimate w/os 1.60 and when I had the Lanier Edge w/os1.6 that plane would tumble and flat spin till the sun went down. So when all is said and done, I guess you could say my engine of choice is the os1.6 in and airplane that will fit in the truck without having to take it apart, because who wants to spend the time assembling it at the field instead of just being ready to fly,fly, fly.good luck, and hope everything goes well for you at the hospital.

thanks again. I have the #8 plug in it now. Don't see any diff. between that and the OS -F. Will let you know how things go. I do tend to agree with you. I had the saito 150 in the plane and was very happy with the performance however my partner wanted the moki 2.10 in it and was very staunch on that decision. H epaid for it.!!!!.

Yes it will. I have been all over this sight and for the most part, the majority of the Moki owners speak very highly of the performance and is well worth the extra effort to get things right. If this does not work out on the extra 300, then it certanly will not work out on my Hanger nine P-51 marie ARF and I will have 2 of them for sale within the next 2 months.

I also have a CAP 232 by world models and it has a Saito 180 in it and what a performer. I will not change that out.

Hey Warthog if that use Moki is $400 why not spend the extra $300 on a new Brison 3.2 its cleaner and cheaper on the long run and no need to buy the extra regulator. I have the brison 3.2 on a WM extra 300 at 16.5 pound with unlimited vertical.

ASP3D: I went out this am about 1000 hours and tried one more time to start the engine inverted before attempting the bench run. I also made sure that I had plenty of glow charge. I didn't even prime it and it started the first flip. Was able to keep it running until I tried to adjust the mixture control the wrong way. I did start it again and it ran really smooth. The most I could get out of it was 6200 rpm. Brought it back to mid range 3500 and let it run for a few minutes, I did adjust the low end as you suggested and that seemed to do the trick. Not long after that it quit.. Opened the mixture control alittle more however it would not start after that. I even connected the adjusable glow starter to it and opened the current as much as I could. It did not blow the plug however it still would not even fire. Checked the plug several times and some times it would be flooded with fuel and other times it wasn't. I have ordered the cline reg and the iron bay reg. I believe my problem is not enough glow and not a steady stream of fuel. I noticed quite a lot of bubbles in my fuel line. I am now going to btry to bench run it. What I don't understand, why does this engine run one time and not the next time in the same time frame. Very puzzling. Oh well, I will resolve this issue. I am not going to give up. The bench test shopuld tell me if I have a bad engine.
Ron.

T28ron, I would guess the reason it would not start again after it ran the first time is because everything heated up and expanded, and got tight inside the cylinder. Like I said before, these big moki engines require a lot of breakin time. Did you add more oil to your fuel before starting it this time? I can't stress enough the need for you to make sure that the engine has been properly broken in BEFORE you start trying to lean out the mixture and getting the engine to run smoothly. Until the engine is broken in properly you will have problems getting it to run consistantly. Just slow down and do the bench mounted breakin procedure, (if you don't have the procedure, I will send you one) and I think you will see that your engine will start to run a whole lot more consistantly.
good luck.

Yes I did add the oil. I see what you mean. I am going to follow your proceedure. I do not have a manual or break-in proceedures for the moki. If you want to send the info I would really appreciate it. If your going to send it thru Email send to; [email protected]. or You can send to:

Ron Weaver
6870 W. shaw Butte dr.
Peoria, AZ 85345.

Thanks again for your help.

Put it in a sturdy engine stand. Set the high needle 4-5 turns out. Use 20% oil and 0% nitro, 5% if the 0% is not available. The oil should be at least 20% castor, 50% is better. Add castor if necessary. With the glow plug drive disconnected, open the throttle all the way, plug the air inlet, turn the prop a few times. Then put the throttle to 1/4. Connect the glow plug driver and flip it backwards (but not all the way through the compression stroke!!!). Should start 1st or 2nd flip. Set the high speed needle so the engine is running at 6500 RPM at full throttle. Run it for 3-4 minutes. Shut it off and let it cool down for 15-20 minutes. Start it and do the same thing about 10 times (take your time and do it in two or three days). After that's done you can lean it out but keep it a little rich for the first 5 gallons. I did this and the thing runs just awesome.

Maybe someone else can tell us what peak RPM range to prop it for on the ground. The 1.80 is 7600-8800.

Joe

The Moki 2.10 should be prop for about 8000 on the ground.

I want to thank you all for the advise and it seems that you guys/gals are all in agreement that is so close it will work. I really appreciate your help. I wont be able to try the bench test for a couple weeks due to Hospital recovery but will keep you all abreast of the cituation as it progresses. Thanks.
Ron.

want to thank you all for the advise and it seems that you guys/gals are all in agreement that is so close it will work. I really appreciate your help. I wont be able to try the bench test for a couple weeks due to Hospital recovery but will keep you all abreast of the cituation as it progresses. Thanks.
Ron.

I have not had my moki flame out in a hover. I just use XXL size fuel tubing and it draws ok. It used to flame all the time until the engine was rebuilt.

3D-kid330