Please check Wayne's pic.

Thanks for the reply; I already have (had) one on back order from Ohio Model Planes; as after considerable research (I was torn between your Yak and the Goldberg Sukhio ARF...) I had settled on yours.

I have a Webra 1.20 I plan to install and would like to add a smoke system.

Dave Hamblin

Well Guy's. That's it for Me. I'm going to return My Somenzini Yak and go with another aircraft.
After reading Mr. Ulery's post, and Quique's post, I am under the impression that Quique suggests the use of analog servos, though high torque, (108 oz@ 4.8 volts) were at fault in one of the flutter crashes, So I am going to go with all digital servos (read: expensive) AND the aircraft is supplied with 2.2mm push rods, (which the Brazilian pilot immediately replaced,) and still got flutter, AND now I am supposed to perform surgery to install an ounce of lead to "static Balance" the elevators, then compensate for the extra tail weight by adding MORE weight to the nose to avoid potentially fatal elevator flutter? On top of that, other posts I've read have informed that a number of aircraft from this manufacturer were shipped with incorrect incedences. Further, no opinion as to the cause of the wing/tube failure has been offered other than to say it should'nt have failed....Ya, no kidding.....
No offense to Mr. Ulery, or Mr. Somenzini, ( As I understand their customer service has been outstanding),but I'm going to return mine and pass on this aircraft at least until there is more of them out there, and the design bugs, if that is the problem here, or manufacturing process, if that's the problem have been worked out.
Finally, what with needing all digital servos all the way around, and needing to upgrade the hardware, I do not want to have nearly two grand into a 72" airplane whose airframe is suspect.
So... what's the best alternative? CG Sukhoi, EF YAK, or....????????

Well Guy's. That's it for Me. I'm going to return My Somenzini Yak and go with another aircraft.
After reading Mr. Ulery's post, and Quique's post, I am under the impression that Quique suggests the use of analog servos, though high torque, (108 oz@ 4.8 volts) were at fault in one of the flutter crashes, So I am going to go with all digital servos (read: expensive) AND the aircraft is supplied with 2.2mm push rods, (which the Brazilian pilot immediately replaced,) and still got flutter, AND now I am supposed to perform surgery to install an ounce of lead to "static Balance" the elevators, then compensate for the extra tail weight by adding MORE weight to the nose to avoid potentially fatal elevator flutter? On top of that, other posts I've read have informed that a number of aircraft from this manufacturer were shipped with incorrect incedences. Further, no opinion as to the cause of the wing/tube failure has been offered other than to say it should'nt have failed....Ya, no kidding.....
No offense to Mr. Ulery, or Mr. Somenzini, ( As I understand that their customer service has been outstanding),but I'm going to return mine and pass on this aircraft at least until there is more of them out there, and the design bugs, if that is the problem here, or manufacturing process, if that's the problem have been worked out.
Finally, what with needing all digital servos all the way around, and needing to upgrade the hardware, I do not want to have nearly two grand into a 72" airplane whose airframe is suspect.
So... what's the best alternative? CG Sukhoi, EF YAK, or....????????

Well,

If you want the "Extreme Flight" YAK, if you check the forum you will see at least one thread on elevator flutter resulting in loss of horizantal stab and a crash with that one.

To me the bottom line is proper setup (good servo's with correct leverage on the horns) and no slop in the linkages, and paying attention to the hinge gap etc.

Any of these type planes can get a case of the "flutters" due to the above, or what I often see at our field, over powered and over-flown (too fast). When the Sukhoi's first came out all seemed to have flimsy cracked cowls and some other problems. 2nd batch straightened those issues as I recall.

I am sticking with Somenzini's YAK. By the time I would get composite gear for the Sukhoi its at or above the price of the YAK.

I have my comments on the "new Carl Goldberg models. I was browseing their websight and saw the sukhoi there. since I own a CG extra and A CG Ultimate built from kit, one was bought in 1992 the other 1993. well anyway i saw the Sukhoi instruction manual there so i went to open it. THEY want to charge you $4.95 to look at the manual in PDF form[:-]. I said well I will not mess with the "new" version of the Co. pretty soon they will be charging $1 to look at new models and $2 to se specs. GEEZZ. Then if you take a slide over to Dave Patrick models (which is who designed the CG aerobats) You will see quality built and flying planes. you can tell by browsing around his site he cares about his products. My next model will be one of them!!.
Back to the YAK. I also think that QQ cares about the quality of his planes. and just from watching this threadand the other. I would say out of as many planes sold. 3 or 4 Is not by any means a "major bug" in design. Then things are looking a little weird when 2 of them are from the same guy. I know he maybe a pro pilot. but even he after his second one went down a red flag should have gone up. hey maybee something is not right. It will have to start looking like the Funtana wing explosion epedimic before I would say they there is a design flaw. I for myself have an F90 and am using a Y.S. 1.40 and have put it in VERY voilent blenders with no wing problems. (just use metal wing bolts) I am also on 50+ flights with the same HS-425bbs that i had in it since day one. I dont think QQs design is at fault.

I don't think just because one guy lost two of the Yaks it should be considered "weird" One was lost due to wing failure, and one was lost to flutter. The one lost to flutter was not set up by the pilot, rather it was shipped to him ready to fly by Wayne Ulery himself! So I have a hard time seeing that the setup was at fault. Also don't forget, both of the crashes were witnesed by not only other good, knowelgeable pilots, but by some very knowelgeable factory reps, such as Ray Labonte of composite-ARF.
The second flutter incident was at the same IMAC contest, but a totally different pilot from Brazil, whom upgraded the included hardware to 4/40 rods and after market horns, and was using digital servos all around, and still got flutter.
Besides all that, I did'nt even mention all the threads I've read about the very fragile landing gear design, or the many models that were shipped from this first batch with wrong incidences that Quique replaced at no charge. I believe it was either Quique or Wayne that posted about 200 of the Somenzini Yaks had been sold and were out there flying. While perhaps the structural failure has been confined to a couple of competition pilots, the landing gear failure and incedence problems have been much more prevalent.
Nope, Mine is going Back, I think maybe a dave Patrick Edge is a good alternative. I still want one, but i think I'll wait and see how they turn out before I buy another. Anyone want to buy mine? (NIB) $399.00 + shipping.
Chuck

wish you were in VA or near i would drive to get it but right now i have more models than servos and recievers. I have a 80" edge still in the box im going to get going. also ive planned on stripping my old ultamate and recovering/upgrading

warplaneinsane:
As far as I know, there have been four threads on this airplane, two are currently active, yours and the "QQ Yak 54". I have subscribed to all of them. If you read all four threads, you'll see that there's only one post, mine, which talks about owning a Yak with a negative incidence in the elevator; e-mailing Quique about the problem; receiving a phone call from Quique himself, wherein he diagnosed the problem and recommended adjustments so that I could continue to fly and familiarize myself with the plane; and, receiving a NIB Yak in two days for my inconvenience.
As far as the landing gear, yeah....I busted the gear and the plate....by stalling the plane in a crosswind.. I strengthened the plate with ply and tried to purchase a landing gear...To my surprise, I couldn't. Wayne sent one for free. What can I say? Some planes just need a new owner. I am happy that you are selling yours.

Hey Apples,
Your close to my location, buy My Yak and shipping is free. BTW, It's still the Sox in seven.
Anyway, the pilot from Brazil also tore the gear out of his Yak on the very 1st flight.
So here is an airframe that Let's see..Has had flutter problems, verified and significant enough to have Wayne Ulery reccomend that you perform surgery to the elevators to balance them, an incedence problem that Quique adresses personally, telling owners how to fix that problem...a landing gear problem that has actually been fairly common, with suggestions from the designer on how to beef them up, (not to mention that the wheel pants usually punch holes into the wing bottoms when the gear fails)....
Bottom line..WHY deal with that. I might not be a pro pilot myself, but I have a hard time flying comfortably a plane that I have my reservations about. Does that mean My Yak needs a new owner? Perhaps.
Please understand that I'm not trying to run down the reputation of anyone's product here... as I think these are just valid concerns. These incidents have all been witnessed and verified.
No, it's not an epedemic like of the Hangar 9 Edge's wing problems.. But there are problems non the less.
Again, from what I have read and been told, Quique and Wayne's customer service has set new standards...
I just think it may be prudent to wait until another shipment arrives and gets out there into more pilots hands, the pros and the ham handed, and the tweeners...like Me
BTW My buddy up in New Hampshire is still out about two grand after reimbursing the chap who's Hangar ( 46% Ultimate he destroyed during the the 1st crash into the flight line wing the wing failed....
Oh Ya... the Yankees still Stink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck

Hey Chuck,
You know what you need to do to give you peace of mind... Send the plane back, or turn it into cash. This is just a hobby....Why belabour the issues that you have introduced? Most of us who are flying the plane are thankful for the info. But, we'll continue to fly and enjoy the plane until it's final flight.

I can't buy your plane because I have two...If you were at my field, you would have no problem selling yours. Better flyers than I want to buy my "Beta Yak" with the negative incidence in the horizontal stab. Go figure...but, I ain't selling.

With regards to the Yankees, they do stink. I am a Mets fan.... But what would it say about the Sox, if they get spanked by them? Imagine that, we already know who is Pedro's Daddy.

Roy

We will see after I get mine and get flying; but in my experience most cases of flutter and landing gear failure are caused by setup, or over powereing (too fast), and landing gear issues because a lot of RC pilots don't really land, they control-crash.

Some planes are better at taking this than others.

When I go to fly-ins I am amazed at many of the "landings" going on. Some lessons in full-size aircraft can help drive home the importantance of attitude and speed control on landings.

I have been reading this post for a while and I think I should post a few words.. Sorry for warplanes mishaps. The second plane that he had was my personal YAK 54, that the tail Fluttered off, And sorry for that. I have been flying that airplane all summer with no problems. I had many flight on the plane along with some friends flying it.. the plane flew great!! . I didn't check anything when I gave it to wayne to send to Warplane, QQ and wayne wanted to make things right so they sent a plane to him. I hated to here that the plane fluttered apart for him .. but the plane for me was great .. Thanks dewey

deweyd,

I concur with you that the plane flies great...and, applaud you for coming back to extend your apologies. But, you know, stuff happens... Let me give you an example. I've been reading this thread, right? Now, I decide to check the elevators on my Yak for play. Guess what? There was play and plenty of it. Why? Because the "Gorilla Glue" I used to secure the hinge pins supplied with the kit has begun to give. The elevator itself is now slipping in and out off the pin by a 1/16". Is that a Structural Failure? Heck NO! It's builder error. Perhaps, I should have used epoxy as Wayne and Quique recommended. Now, I don't know how long that condition has existed, but it hasn't fluttered yet. Go figure. I guess I haven't gotten to the bottom of my "Good Luck" bag.

Roy

Dewey,
There is absolutely no need to apologize to me! I'm not the pilot who experienced the flutter either time, nor the wing failure. I have been posting on this thread only because I have a Somenzini Yak NIB, and have been agonizing over whether or not to keep mine, or go with another aircraft. So, I really started this thread to see if there were any other reported structural/flutter problems as My buddy, and the brazilian pilot did. If I had'nt wanted this airplane so bad, it would be much easier to just get rid of it as apples suggested.
No, I have posted here looking for a reason to keep it.....not get rid of it!
As for belaboring Issues, apples, if you feel that those posting to this thread are beating a dead horse, I respectfully suggest you simply read other threads.
Chuck

Hey Chuck,

How about them Yankees! Heh? So then, the Yak is a keeper, because there haven't been any other postings with elevator flutter. But, I do thank you, though...I checked my elevators and there was enough play to cause a flutter.

Roy

I have two friends that are using CA hinges for the elevator. I'm not sure what Quique would say about it ,but they seem to be very tight and durable.. Dewey

warplaneinsane,

The AMA did not cover the damage to the Ultimate? Is that not considered personal property? What if it had been a car in the parking lot?

I don’t know that the AMA would cover it but I sure would ask.
[]

Personal property? what do you call it? Sounds like the run around. I work in the shafting end of the auto insurance industry. Nothing you can say about insurance will suprise me. There Is a house not too far from mine that a Tornado hit and destroyed 2 years ago. the insurance still has never paid and they are in lawsuit. The insurance said it was an act of god and they didnt cover it. This is not a part of the country where tornado insurance is neccissary.

but that is sad.

I thought AMA would cover stuff like that. If you think about it there is no difference from a sitting on the ground airplane and a sitting in the parking lot car.

While I hate to contribute to the delinquincy of this thread, and thus maintaining a course off track from the origin, I believe that the AMA insurance covers costs only after your own homeowner and/or other personal liability insurance is tapped first. I'm sure someone will chirp in here, but I presume one needs to file a claim with the AMA in order to obtain any coverage.

Lee,
You may be right, I need to sit down and read the policies of AMA. I know that insurance can be very tricky and I'm sure there are legal loops in theirs also.

Gents,
My buddy in New Hampshire who lost the Yak (s) and damaged another pilots Hangar 9 Ultimate during the resulting crash also happens to be a newly appointed Assoc. Vice president of the AMA for District 1. He did contact the AMA to file a claim and found it to be a quagmire of catch 22 situations. He was indeed told that AMA insurance kicks in only after one's own homeowner's or other existing privately held liability insurance has paid off to the extent of their limits.
The catch 22 is that after talking with his home owner's insurance company, he was told he would probably be looking at a yearly increase in premiums that would at least equal, if not eclipse the $2,000 he paid the ultimate pilot to replace his airplane. Plus such an increase in premiums would stay in effect for a full 3 to 5 years, if there were no further claims submitted during that time period. (not to mention his unrecoverable deductable)
So........if he submits the claim to his home owners company, the increase in his premiums will cost him about 3 times+ what he is already out of Pocket...and if he doesn't, the AMA will not even consider his claim..........
We here in New England are quite concerned over this entire episode, from accident to aftermath... both for safety and for financial reasons. It has been the topic of an immense amount of discussion locally. Almost to the point that any structural or other problems with the Somenzini Yak has become a peripheral issue.
Even more frightening, is that my buddy has reported that he did enquire, both of the AMA and his own insurance company as to what would happen if, (God forbid) a bystander on the ground had been injured or worse when the wing failure Yak came down in the Pit area. The response was the same from the AMA, but his home owners said that his policy would "probably" cover the claim up to policy limits,.... but only if an investigation showed there was no negligence on his his part, was inolved....and then added that if they did pay off, his home owners would then be most likely canceled.
HMMMMMM....... could doing a power off blender over show center, by a qualified and experienced pilot be considered negligent????? If not, what part of liability would the Manufacturer be exposed to?????? I don't think the "we design them to withstand such manuvers, but cannot control the actual building process" would carry much weight with a Jury...
Before anyone yells this dicussion is over reaching... you all should know, that when the wing failed on his Yak, and he was struggling to steer it away from the pits, he did in fact yell, "heads up, I' don't got it," or words to that effect, and when the Yak came down and hit the Ultimate, it missed 3 pilots by about 6 feet...............
VERY SCARY!!!!
Thoughts?
Chuck

Chuck,
Your statement “Almost to the point that any structural or other problem with the Somenzini Yak has become a peripheral issue” is all so true. My concern is more of the AMA. I know that I have to get out the book now and read more. Based on the statements you made I see no need for AMA insurance. I would rather pay extra to my homeowners insurance than to have to deal with two or more insurance companies. I was under the impression that the AMA would cover cases like this without a problem. Maybe we need to investigate our coverage more.

I believe personally, that AMA insurance is a must, as not every R/C pilot is a home owner, with an insurance policy to protect him.
(This forum is really starting to evolve huh?)
Chuck