Back to the tail...

a. We added 1/8 x 1/4 balsa strips to the elevator fillers and trimmed/sanded to make the gap with the elevator even and parallel. Then re-cover with white Ultracote.

b. Before installing, we test fit the vertical stab. It required a bit of trimming and sanding to get the back edge flush and inline with the end of the fuse.

c. Then, put it all together and mark all around with a water-based ink pen.

d. Cut just inside all the lines about 1/16" and remove the coating for the glue joints on the veritcal stab, fuse, fillers and horizontal stab.

c. Install the vertical stab, and straight-edge the rear to the fuse again. Check square to the horizontal stab (lucky this time, it was right).

d. Wick in liberal amounts of thin CA while pinching the tail slot together against the v-stab.

e. Install the fillers and wick in thin CA all around.

f. We used the white RTV silicone to finish all the joints. This provides fuel sealing and improved appearance.

Now we're making some progress.

belly pan looks great. 1/8 in is pretty steep..you guys will be done with yours before i get my wing halfs epoxyed. my hold up is servos.. I need some.. i was going to rob them out of my funtana 90. but decided not to. I will have to get some

Drumbum,
You might try this web site for some good prices on servos.
http://www.donalds-hobby.com/Prod/Scripts/default.asp
Good deal on some digital servo's and free shipping.
John

Hey John... educate me, if you please. Why would I want a digital servo? What is the advantage?

I'll throw a couple pennies at that...

I felt the same way when I first got into the hobby... Seemed to me there was no reason for the higher priced servos... they were faster and stronger, but come on... they were over twice the price of standard servos...

After a year or so my skills began to get a little better and the planes I was flying were getting bigger... suddenly the higher torque servos were getting more expensive... still not as much as digitals... but maybe 2/3s the cost...

Still yet I'd listen to guys go on about the "difference" you feel in the air. FInally I bit the bullet and bought 5 of HiTec's 5945's...

Well... I'm a convert. They are indeed leaps and bounds better in any airframe I've out them in.

They are usually center much better meaning the plane returns to the same trim after each stick movement.

The speed IS important. SOme guys write it off saying I can't think that fast... simply not true. Others will say that they end up slowing them down with expo because they are too fast... still not correct if ever you needed the speed it's at the end of the expo when it "kicks in" and heads toward full deflection.

I used to think that a good quality digital servo was only for giant scale... I was wrong... I out a set on a profile and the plane became a totally different animal... I mean completely. What I used to think was simply bad habits of a profile ended up being servo stall and slow speed.

I really like HiTec servos... especially because I have the programmer that allows me to match servos, reverse them and more. That saves money on larger scale craft, and makes setup easier and lighter.

But regardless of brand... a good quality digital servo is very noticeable over standard or standard hi-torque servos.

Do yourself a BIG favor and buy some for this plane. I'd recommend the HiTec 5625's or 5645's on the lower price end... About $190 in a package set.

On the best side... 5925's coreless digitals... Maybe like $300.

Lastly... the very best servo in your plane should be on the throttle... I don't know HOW many people put the cheapest, junk servo on the throttle. Then they complain about slow spoolup, hovering problems, etc. put a fast servo on the throttle and spend a great deal of time getting a slop and bind free install. Work at getting the the throw so that the servo is at full rotation both ways to acheive low idle/kill and full throttle. I usually set my endpoints (ATV on other radios) to the max 120%-140% too... this will give you the greatest amount of resolution in the throttle meaning each "click" of the stick will input the least amount of fuel resulting in a much wider range of control. Then adjust the throttle expo (or program a curve) so that the transition is evenly distributed throughout the stick range.

Ahhh... there I went again... hope there is some useful info there...

One disclaimer... if you only fly Sunday circles or just beginning (which I doubt you are... considering the CAP Maniac choice) then perhaps you wouldn't notice much difference in standard vs. digital servos...

Ok but i have $180 in this plane.. I witll have $190 in servos. Im gonna use HS425bb`s in it. i have these in my Funtana 90 with a YS 140 and in my Ucan do 60. both have logged to many flights to count with no problems. I admit my throttle was a little sluggish but that was remedied with du-bro ball links and positive expo on my hitec radio. Im not downing digital at all. If i didnt have a BIG house payment and a 16 month old.a wife, 3 cars and a camper. i would be all digital. they are just not in my budget. I am used to flying that way and can hover,torque roll, harrier,blender, etc. no problem.Im just enjying the hobby with the rescorses i can affofrd. I have a 27% edge that has been sitting in the box for 8 months because i dont have the cash for hs 635MG`s right now

And budget is always has the final word... but question was what was the advantage.

Certainly the answer is always buy the best you can afford. Personally I'd sell one plane and trick out the other than to have two planes that aren't giving me "their best". But that us personal opinion only.

yea your right but i like to take at least 2 to the field incase one is being tempermental or the event i may crash one. I sold a bunch of electric stuff to get this plane.. I work off commission and we have been real slow. hopefully one day it will pick up and I can do something

Okay, so this debate on servos is getting my attention. My skill level is probably not at the point where it matters yet. Kinda like my golf clubs, those $1200 Ping clubs I tried just don't improve my lousy game over the $200 set I bought at Costco. I suppose it's like that.

Let me play back what I understand... the digital servos tend to be a) faster, b) more accurate. I gather that as I struggle to master some of these stunts, the choice to use the HS425BB's that came with my Eclipse7 radio will hinder my progress. That makes sense. Upgrading to a $300 set of servos is a big investment... but we are ones to agree that if you are gonna do it, do it right.

So, why then are these digital servos "prgrammable", and require another toy to do the programming. Can't you do all the programming with the computer transmitter? Everything Maudib describes can be done from the radio...

On a plane this size.. yes... you only have one servo per channel...

But get a 33% and you have dual servos on the ailerons, rudder, etc...


Then it's nice to be able to match their throws so that they don't fight each other. It's an extra for those who are growing into larger planes...

The other issue is value... the Digitals will hold a higher value and be usable in larger aircraft should you go there... 50cc and above where a standard servo wouldn't have enough torque.


I guess, to put it most succinctly... I had a profile... CG Extreme 330... with standard Futaba 3004 servos... flew O.K. but was "sloppy" in performance... it was easy to see that in the more radical maneuvers that the surfaces were tsalling the servos... even moving them backwards...

I replaced with 5945's (for kicks and grins) and ended up seeing a totally different plane... the speed, torque and accuracy made the plane an absolute ball to fly, and was doing things it just could not do prior.

The question is "Is there a difference?" the answer is yes... significant. But is it worth it? Depends on who you ask. I just will tell you that I thought the same thing UNTIL I experienced the difference... even on a .46 size profile.

As everyone else has said they do make a difference. I have two 5645MG's and two 5625MG's in my Razzle. This plane is about the same size as the Cap Manaic.
Since I have two servos running the elevators I have used the programer to setup the servo's so that they throw the same. Borrowed it from my local hobby shop.
The 189 dollar price for four these servo's wether they are 25's or 45's is a really good price. Do you have to have them, No you do not. Are they worth the money,
Yes they are. The other big deal is that they are metal geared instead of plastic (for lack of better word at this moment) they do not have as much play in them as
compared to the standard servo's. What I will be doing is using carbon fiber rods and ends to give me better strength and such on these serveos much as I did with
my Razzle.

Since the manual has no recomendations for servo's but the Video page shows what they had for setup then I would not put anything lower than a 76oz servo which
matchs the torque of a Futuba 9202. Hitec no longer makes a 945 the closest thing is the 945MG which has which has 122oz at 4.8 volts. That will most likely be the servo
that ends up on my rudder. The throttle servo is the only one I have to think about as torque is not a requirement but would still like a decent servo on it.

Here is a picture of the servo's on the backend of the Razzle with the carbon fiber rods.
John

What engine is everyone putting on this plane?
I putting a Saito 100.
John

We are also warming up a new Saito 100. Have 7-8 tanks thru it so far on the test stand. Looks like a APC 14x6 should be about right for the prop selection.

BTW:We rigged the Rudder last night. Photos later. Word of warning... more badness in the design was discovered[&o]. The cables on the pull-pull go thru slots hidden under the covering. When you try to pull the cables thru to the servo, they will be forced to route inward thru the center of the rear bulkhead. Without correction, they will drag and saw on the bulkhead. There is not a straight-line shot to the control horns from the servo. We were lucky to have a 12" long 1/8" drill bit handy (got it at Lowes), and managed to drill thru the cable slits into the bulkhead to make it a straight shot. It's still not perfect, but to do it right would require removing the covering on the fuse. This is our first pull-pull rigging, but that sure seems bogus to me!

after break in use a 15x6. How was balancing with the servo in the pull pull , nose or tail heavy

We're not far enough along for balancing yet... still have engine, aileron, fuel tank and radio/battery to install.

Every step of this build is presenting new challenges [sm=drowning.gif]. There was absolutlely nothing in the manual about the pull-pull rudder install, not even a picture showing it finished. Somewhere in the middle, the elevators and rudder magically appear installed. Now we see the rudder will need to be trimmed for the tail-wheel hardware to mount up. The rudder hangs down more than 1/8" below the fuse bottom when you have a reasonable gap in the rudder clearance at the top. This kit was not ready for shipping when they finally decided to let it out .

We are debating engine mounting. Should we mount head-down or head-right on this thing. Seems we may avoid cutouts if it's head down, but I see from other postings that we might need an on-board glow starter if we do that, to provide a reliable idle. Anybody have input on this?

Also, we bought a 16 oz tank for this plane[>:]. Is that too big?

good thing i didnt sink the money in their edge when i was looking for a gas plane if its anything like this one. I wish i could turn form page 1 to 2 and have mine magicaly put together

Lee, I have the edge and it is a great plane. No troubles at all putting it together. If you are considering it shoot me a PM and I can tell you more about it.

Hmmm... it's a shame a few of you are having problems with the CAP Maniac.... But don't extend it's problems on the other aircraft they offer... The Edge is of awesome quality and the big Ultimate is quite nice too... I have them both and haven't found anything out of place on either and I am pretty particular...

-David

I considered it about 5 months ago. but went with another 50cc edge. That is the plane that is sitting in my basement waiting for me to buy some HS-645MGs for it

I had a Saito 100 in a Sukhoi mounted inverted and it ran great. The 15x6 prop will do good but if you have the clearance try a 16x4w it will slow the plane down but still give you lots of pull.

The build progresses...

Here is the tail feathers all done. We put in Dubro cable guides and upgrade all control horns and links. We also installed Dubro pin-hinges. Rudder and Elevators are really smooth and loose.

The tail wheel is not very high quality. We'll probably change it out later. It's kinda loosy goosy and doesn't seem to be held well with the little screw on the shaft. We put a flat-spot to secure it better.

And now the engine install...

We decided to mount inverted. There would be too much cowl cutting to mount righthand with this big Saito 100. Test fitting showed almost the whole head would stick out of the fairly narrow side-bulge in the cowl, really breaking the nice lines and making it weak. We upgraded to a Dubro 686 vibration reducing mount ($37). I'm sure the plastic one supplied would work fine, but we have become obsessed with making this thing sweet .

[:@] CAUTION: There is another serious error in the instructions. We carefully test-fit the engine and cowl, and discovered that if you use the 5-1/2" offset for the prop hub to the firewall, the cowl will not reach the fuse at the bottom. It must be no more than 5-1/8", and at that it just barely covers at the bottom edge. I would recommend shooting for 5", but the carb is right over the bottom-left mount screw.

You must reverse the carb to get the throttle in the middle. Even if you use the stock mounts, you will have to shave a much thinner face where that mount screw is located. It's really tight. You can see we had to cut half of the mount thickness off, remove one vibration pad and still had to countersink the bushing and machine the 10-32 socket head screw to get it in this location. Lots of work here.

The thrust-line center location (in the manual) turned out to be pretty close, but with our experience thus far with this kit, we took a lot of extra time test-fitting to check it.

We put in a Performance Specialties Twister muffler ($70) and a AeroTrend Blueline #1024 pipe extension. We discovered that the stock muffler is nearly completely out of the cowl with the engine inverted. The 90 degree exit and close profile allows this muffler to stay inside the cowl and exit underneath neetly with a 4" extension pipe. We will finish that install with an angled ply spanner (shown not yet installed) from the Firewall to the lower bulkhead so we can wire-tie the pipe extension securely and have just a little notch in the bottom edge of the cowl. The pipe sticks out about 2" below the fuse.

We installed a remote-glow tap (Hanger 9 HAN3025). This thing is real nice... much better than the Dubro I put in my Funtana. We also put in a Dubro Kwik-Fill Fuel Valve (Dubro #334) and mounted like they showed in the manual with a flange.

The Throttle Linkage was a challenge too. It ends up right against the short floor step, and requires some handy dremmel sanding with a 1/4" diamerter wheel to trim the floor wall inside, back about 1" to make it a clean shot. The control rod was upgraded to a #2-56 Dubro #102 Kwik-Rod and Dubro #815 Safety Lock Kwik-Link. The little thin wire supplied was sloppy in the Saito Carb horn holes, and I don't like the bent-wire approach because it makes assembly & service difficult.

more to come [sm=thumbup.gif]

Keep an eye on the Dubro kwick fill. I use them and have had numerous brand new ones not seal out the box.. Ive had the best luck with them run from a 3rd tube in the tank bent down to the bottom of the tank and then i block the end off that is supposed to go to the carb.. sometimes if they are inline with the carb they will restrict fuel into the carb

You are right about that Quik-fill. We just ran the engine to see how it does, and when we were done fueling, it would not close. I took it apart, the plunger was stuck. I got it out, streatched the spring real good and reassembled. Blew into the ports with hose, nice and tight now.

Here is the finished engine install. The yellow line is the crank vent line. Used a cable television cable clamp, shaved on the underside so it pinches the hose nicely.

The second shot is the finished wing all set up. Used Dubro Pinned Hinges, upgrades on links and horns, all #4-40 hardware. Already thinking those servos need upgrading. Landing Gear installed too, with the new wheels.

Installed a Sullivan Vee Style 16 ounce fuel tank (BT-16 No. 390) which has a very low profile. It sits right against the front fuse roof with 1/2" Dubro Foam Rubber pad (#514). Leaves just enough room for the throttle line under it. I don't think you will get the throttle rod past the stock tank, too tall... but I could be wrong. We wanted more fuel. so we never tried the stock round tank. (photo later)

Ready to cut the cowling now... getting close!

Getting close...

Here is the fuel tank install. We put a padded spanner in the front to hold it down, then put a gusset with a pad on the back of a screw-on strap in the bulkhead. The strap has a notch, and a cap piece has the throttle cable epoxied into it. Easy to disassembly is necessary. We nned to add a stop to keep the tank from moving to the rear.

Got the cowl all cut out and mounted [sm=lol.gif]. Right side has fuel tap and needle valve extension, left side is clean. Bottom has head cutout, exhaust pipe and crank drain. The paint on the cowl is very brittle and peels easy. See all the chipping around the head cutout. BTW: Previous photos show the exhaust pipe with the elbow on top. Had to reverse it to get in on the bottom so it missed the cowl.

Question for you pros... Do we need to put any additonal vents for better airflow in the bottom?

New problem [&o] : We know the motor is mounted dead right... but to get the cowl to center about the prop hub, it had to be pulled down such that the top cowl has a big bulge and gap over the top of the fuse at the rear. You can see the bulge in the two upright shots. I had this problem with my first Funtana, and the only way to fix it was to take off the skin and sand the top front fuse profile so the cowl is relaxed and not strained, then recover the fuse. Does anyone have a better idea how to fix this?

We have looked far and wide. We can't match the color of this top vane of blue. Ultracote, Monocote & others don't match. We found some Monocote decal sheets that do match, but that won't work for this. We need to find out what this stuff is, and get some to fix this. It will fly like this, but it looks bad.