Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

The other H9 Extra 260 thread is getting too focused on carbon gear issues so thought I would ask this question here.

In that thread, many of the DA 50 installers rave about performance, which it should have for plus $600 for the engine, but most who indicate, their dry weight is approximately 15 pounds. My question is where is the weight coming from?

Last night I weighed all the components (box contents, radio, spinner, Duralites, etc.) for my H9 Extra and according to the totals, less engine, is 7.81 lbs. The box contents weighs 95.5 oz., Radio components weigh 24.5 oz, spinner/adapter weighs 5.0 oz.That leaves me 7.19 lbs for an engine, prop and ignition system (I thought the DA 50 was THE lightweight to have!) and miscellaneous.

What am I missing here? Did I get an exceptionally light airframe or did they get an exceptionally heavy one? Or does phantom weight creep in when it is assembled?

EXTRA ADDICT

My Feedback: (2)

My Extra weighed in at 8.2 with everything minus engine prop and spinner. The final weight was 12.6 with an OS 160 so some (phantom) weight will creep in but not alot. Also don't be surprised if some of those guys chime in and tell you your scales are wrong that is what they did to me. Be sure and I can't stress this enough go over all the glue joints alot of guys are having the throttle servo tray and other locations come loose! The bottom of my motor box came loose in flight with my fuel tank attached by velcro tearing the fuel lines and resulting in a bad dead stick landing. I hope this helps you out GOOD LUCK!

babflyer

My Feedback: (2)

I dont know how the wieghts can very so much on a plane like this, its not like one builder uses way more epoxy than another, there really is no need to use any except for hinging unless you use hinge glue. Differences in servos would be minimal and even battery differences wouldnt add up to a whole lot. I have a pilot figure so that can add compared to others final wieght. My plane came in just a tad over 14 lbs. Sure it would be in the 13 range without pilot but seriously to get mine any lighter would be expensive for just a half lb difference. My plane wont even drop into a spin properly it is light enough on the wings so you have to cheat it. My engine choice has plenty of power and is only slightly heavier than an os 1.60fx. In my opinion a Da50 would need tail weight and be rediculously overpowered. I was at the field today and had a few coments on the power and how well it did in slow flight. I am experimenting with moving the cg rearward, when all done I think a heavy tailwheel is going to be placed on the plane or just a bit of lead in the stab tube as it would be harder and add more overall weight to mount the battery farter rearward. I love my plane at 14 lbs, just want to get a little more red on the wing for visibility.

babflyer

My Feedback: (2)

everyone just has DA on the brain, it might be the most powerfull 50 but isnt the lightest gasser that will fly this plane with authority. A lighter 40 pulls jsut fine.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

There is no 40cc gas engine that is lighter than the DA50. I think the ZDZ 40 is the same weight, I know the others are heavier. In fact, the DA50 is lighter than most 25cc engines that is why most people use them. That, and they produce gobs of power.

IMO this plane seems like more of a glow plane converted to gas, kind of like the GP wagstaff. It will fly with gas, but a Moki or big OS is a better fit.

DP

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

Ignition engine weights are elusive and rarely can you get an accurate weight on any of them. I know the DA 50 is powerful but ones I have seen (3) were very tempermental. Advertised weight is 3.25 lbs, but that is a minimal engine. Add a muffler(5-7 oz.), Ignition system (5-7 oz, 1200-1400 Nicad (6-8 oz), a switch harness (1-2 oz), mounts (2-3 oz), and, oh yes, a spark plug (1-2 oz) and the total is 4.5 - 5.06 lbs. Still light and powerful but heavier than most claims.

Add those numbers to my previous totals and mine should weigh between 12.31 - 12.87 lbs, so let's round it up to 13.0 - 13.5 lbs. Still not 15!

I am tentatively planning a Fuji BT-43EI (4.5 lbs installed with battery). Why? Because I want to try one. Also flew a H9 72" Cap 232 several years ago with a G-23. It flew the IMAC intermediate pattern with authority and weighed slightly over 13 lbs. The Extra at 12.5 - 13.5 lbs with the Fuji 43 should fly just as well and provide some 3D if wanted. Don't need to hover, I have helis for that.

Considered an OS BGX 3500, which is lighter, more powerful...but messy. Also considered Supertigre 2300 which is lighter yet and is equivalent power to the OS 1.60 (that seems to be the case at the local field with identical ARF's), but again a bit messy.

I'm sure the Extra flys well up to 15-16 lbs, I just don't want to get there. Might even forego the Fuji and use glo instead as it will reduce weight and I already have them.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Not sure where your numbers are coming from but my DA50 with Ignition, Johnson muffler, Li-Ion battery, regulator, switch, wiring and standoffs is less than 4 pounds.

A Moki 2.10 with muffler is more than 1/2 pound less weight and it puts out nearly the same power.


DP

Dick T.

My Feedback: (243)

desertpig, thanks for the accurate information on the DA 50. My listed weights were based on items I have in the shop. Weighed a Duralite tonight and it saves 5-6 oz from my low number of 4.5 lbs so I wasn't too far off from your actual.

Still doesn't total 14.5 to 15 lbs some fellows are ending up at with the DA 50 so there is phantom weight somewhere or their scales are goofy.

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

the bme44 is lighter, by at least 7 ounces...

Flyin Hawaiian

At one time I was concerned about the weight thing. I really tried to keep the weight down on my DA powered Extra. Mine weighs in just under 15 lbs. (please read my entry on the other thread cause I gave a 1st flight report w/ pics) Even before I bought the plane, I thought that at fifteen pounds I believe the wing loading was approaching 30 oz/in per sq ft. Not Good for 3D flying right?!

Well I beleive the the airframe design with higher wing placement really helps this plane to be very stable, even with the heavier wing loading. This plane flies great! It will do any thing I can throw at it. It is a little tail heavy, about 1/4", the back of the recommended CG range, and it does have a little faster sink rate on landings, so I do have to keep a slightly higher than idle setting when landing. Yes I think a Moki 2.10 would fly this thing great, but I wanted to step up to gas. And the DA / Extra 260 combo made complete sense.

As far as phantom weight is concerned, I too weighed every thing before final installation, and I thought I was going to end up w/ 14.5 lb airplane. Right off the bat, like all of the other ARF's I built (assembled) I CA glued down all joints I could reach just for peice of mind. I also fiberglass reinforced the front part of the engine box. I did eventually glue the elevator stabs in because each flight the fit was getting looser. My landing gear delaminated so I repaired that w/ CA and dental floss wrapping (it works great so far w/ six grass landings on it)
Don't forget nylon zip ties, foam rubber pads, velcro fasteners, misc. servo and mounting screws, it all adds up. But with a plane that performs this could, it could weigh 16 lbs and I wouldn't care.

Rennie

Brett Horton

My Feedback: (17)

Hey guys,
I am Flying mine with a FPE 52 cc and love it! I will weigh the airplane when I get home tonight. It will be ready to fly including about half a tank of fuel. Plenty of power from this motor and very reliable, easy starting, ect.

Thanks,
Brett Horton
www.copterviews.com
www.team-r-b.com

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

That's fine, and if you can buy a BME 44 new, then go for it. It's not even listed on the BME website. I am talking released, shipping engines I can actually go out and buy. Read the fine print too.. I don't think the spec included the ignition module, which is about 6 oz. Manufacturers loved to leave that info off in the past until we all shamed them into putting the all-up weight on the spec sheet.

I am sure BME will put out a 55 soon, and no doubt there is other stuff in the works that is lighter... MVVS puts out some nice light stuff. DA is working on new stuff too though... so we all get to benefit.

Right now DA is it in the 30-60 class for power, weight and availability.
DP

FBaity

My Feedback: (2)

Anyone runnung the fuel tank on the CG, would like to see a pic,thanks.

babflyer

My Feedback: (2)

wow! 30-60 class? I know of many instances where I would go with smaller engines than a da 50, I will give you DA may be the most powerfull 50, I dont know for sure but I do know that if that much power isnt necassary there are many other options than can result in less overall weight while still having 3d power. Back before the days of DA, 3W engines were the rage, guess what, they arent the lightest engines either. Just powerful cc for cc when compared to many other brands, same as DA. I guess I will have to dig my book out with the all up mounting weights for many of the popular glow motors being discussed along with my brison 2.4. I sent a moki 1.8 back to cheif aircraft because that thing was going to weigh just as much as my brison mounted up when I was looking for an engine for my 25%cap.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

mvvs 45 would be the ticket, or, a ys 160dz

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

In estimating weights. everyone seems to forget quite a few "extras"...

Extensions, zip ties, shrink tube, control linkage, foam padding, tanks & plumbing, fuel dots, decals, epoxy/CA etc...

While it may seem minimal, it all adds up (extensions alone can add up quick) as many as 8 can add up to 8 oz... 1/2 lb.

I've seen the same plane weigh differently as much as 1/4+ lbs coming out of the box. It's also reasonable that scales could be off by that much too...