Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
07-18-2005, 10:37 AM
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Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
Has anyone else run into the issue where the recommended engine for the new Showtime 90 will not fit with the stock muffler? This engine is SO NEW that no one is making an after market muffler that I'm aware of.
What in the world were they thinking recommending an engine that they KNEW would not fit properly. I understand that this is the manufacturer "du jour" for Horizon but how pompous to knowingly recommend an engine that won't fit simply because they distribute it.
I'm not at all happy with Horizon/Hangar-9...They also offer NO SOLUTION to this predicament.
Nice Job, Hangar-9. I'll certainly think TWICE before buying another one of your products.
(never had this happen with Great Planes...)
What in the world were they thinking recommending an engine that they KNEW would not fit properly. I understand that this is the manufacturer "du jour" for Horizon but how pompous to knowingly recommend an engine that won't fit simply because they distribute it.
I'm not at all happy with Horizon/Hangar-9...They also offer NO SOLUTION to this predicament.
Nice Job, Hangar-9. I'll certainly think TWICE before buying another one of your products.
(never had this happen with Great Planes...)
07-18-2005, 11:13 AM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
I can't say much good about H9 either, but maybe you could get a muffler extension or turn the muffler around? where is the fitment issue?
07-18-2005, 12:45 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
The stock muffler is about 1/2" shy of making the mark. It would require either an extension or a gaping hole in the side of the fuselage and FIREWALL...neither would be desired.
BTW...I contacted Horizon Customer Support and described my situation...
They suggested I use a different engine...This comes directly form Horizon!
I also called Brisson to see if they made an inverted Pitts style muffler for the Evolution 100 and they said that Horizon never contacted them about a new engine hence they haven't manufactured a muffler for it.
Wouldn't you think that KNOWING your customers were going to require a different muffler solution for an engine that YOU recommend for a model you distribute...You might actually contact the after market muffler manufacturers and let them know there might be a demand for a new product.
HORIZON and HANGAR-9 YOU HAVE SOOOOO MISSED THE MARK ON THIS ONE!!!
(and your customer service leaves something to be desired...)
BTW...I contacted Horizon Customer Support and described my situation...
They suggested I use a different engine...This comes directly form Horizon!
I also called Brisson to see if they made an inverted Pitts style muffler for the Evolution 100 and they said that Horizon never contacted them about a new engine hence they haven't manufactured a muffler for it.
Wouldn't you think that KNOWING your customers were going to require a different muffler solution for an engine that YOU recommend for a model you distribute...You might actually contact the after market muffler manufacturers and let them know there might be a demand for a new product.
HORIZON and HANGAR-9 YOU HAVE SOOOOO MISSED THE MARK ON THIS ONE!!!
(and your customer service leaves something to be desired...)
07-18-2005, 01:26 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
07-18-2005, 01:46 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
i'm sure theres a muffler or extension out there that will bolt up, look around some more... take some measurements and compare to older motors..
as usual, piss poor service from the losers at horizon... "deal with it yourself" "wow this isnt fun"
as usual, piss poor service from the losers at horizon... "deal with it yourself" "wow this isnt fun"
07-18-2005, 05:05 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
Well, as it turns out a friend of mine owns a machine shop and he offered to mill a spacer for me. I figure 5/8" should get me nicely past the cowl cheeks.
It would have been nice to know this little fact UP FRONT, though. I usually read a manual online about a dozen times before I even buy a model. That way I can prepare whatever accessories I might need. I chose the path of least resistance by going with the recommended engine and got BURNED. You live and learn.
Thanks for all your suggestions. Once I get the part fabricated and installed I'll let you know how it works out.
It would have been nice to know this little fact UP FRONT, though. I usually read a manual online about a dozen times before I even buy a model. That way I can prepare whatever accessories I might need. I chose the path of least resistance by going with the recommended engine and got BURNED. You live and learn.
Thanks for all your suggestions. Once I get the part fabricated and installed I'll let you know how it works out.
07-18-2005, 05:11 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
YNOT,
NICE!!! I like the way you inverted the SFG's as well..;-) I'm having a friend mill a spacer for the Evo 100. The engine only cost $150 so I can't see spending another $100 on a good inverted Pitts muffler. Anyway, if it doesn't work out here I'll just have to buy a real engine...
NICE!!! I like the way you inverted the SFG's as well..;-) I'm having a friend mill a spacer for the Evo 100. The engine only cost $150 so I can't see spending another $100 on a good inverted Pitts muffler. Anyway, if it doesn't work out here I'll just have to buy a real engine...
07-19-2005, 12:59 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
Gentlemen,
Bisson does make a pitts muffler for the EVO 1.00 I Know as I have it mounted (sidewise) in my Funtanna 90, works fine and it's not $100.00 but $50.00 direct from Bisson. Unfortunatly I don't rember the stock #, just check the (Bisson) web site.
Bisson does make a pitts muffler for the EVO 1.00 I Know as I have it mounted (sidewise) in my Funtanna 90, works fine and it's not $100.00 but $50.00 direct from Bisson. Unfortunatly I don't rember the stock #, just check the (Bisson) web site.
07-19-2005, 01:18 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
ORIGINAL: YNOT
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
YNOT.....if you don't mind me asking......what does your Showtime weight with the 1.60?
Thx,
Neo
07-19-2005, 08:36 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
ORIGINAL: NeoGenesis
YNOT.....if you don't mind me asking......what does your Showtime weight with the 1.60?
Thx,
Neo
ORIGINAL: YNOT
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
YNOT.....if you don't mind me asking......what does your Showtime weight with the 1.60?
Thx,
Neo
9 lbs.
07-21-2005, 06:14 AM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
To All:
Mike McConnville has graciously offered to assist in rectifying the Showtime/EVO 100 muffler situation.
Keep your eyes on Bisson site for updates.
Thaks for all your suggestions!
Cist08o
Mike McConnville has graciously offered to assist in rectifying the Showtime/EVO 100 muffler situation.
Keep your eyes on Bisson site for updates.
Thaks for all your suggestions!
Cist08o
07-21-2005, 07:34 AM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
I love the Evo 100 on my 6.5 pound ultrastick, but it ain't a powerhouse at my altitude - unlimited vertical, but barely.
Even if you can get your Showtime down to 8 pounds I don't think you're gonna be happy...
Even if you can get your Showtime down to 8 pounds I don't think you're gonna be happy...
07-21-2005, 08:03 AM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
I've milled out several spacers for guys. It's so easy and it's the cheapest way to make things work. Just always keep your options open, and an open mind when building stuff. Because to have a machine shop mill you a small piece of aluminum will cost you 1/4 of what bisson, slimline will rape you for buying their pitts mufflers.
07-21-2005, 04:24 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
ORIGINAL: YNOT
9 lbs.
ORIGINAL: NeoGenesis
YNOT.....if you don't mind me asking......what does your Showtime weight with the 1.60?
Thx,
Neo
ORIGINAL: YNOT
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
It was designed for a 4 stroke. however I'm in the "its gonna stick out mode" myself. I was going to use an inverted pitts muffler from Slimline, however it won't fit between the motor and firewall.
If you really want to get picky, IMO, the plane was designed around the YS 110. Unless you currently own one or have been on a waiting list for a few months already, you can't get a YS 110.
After flying mine with a OS 160, Horizon may have been right with the "different motor" comment, not sure the Evo 100 will deliver the performance a hard cord 3D pilot will desire.
YNOT.....if you don't mind me asking......what does your Showtime weight with the 1.60?
Thx,
Neo
9 lbs.
08-15-2005, 05:29 PM
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RE: Hangar-9 Showtime 90/Evolution 100 Problem
I also have huge issues with my showtime and the engine installation. I decided to install a saito 120s in mine and I too had a serious muffler problem. The stock muffler just wouldn't work and would hit the firewall at only 5.5 inches from firewall to engine drive washer. Since that value cannot be changed without changing the cowl I had to resort to other muffler options. The best I found was to scrap the stock muffler and replace it will the saito flex muffler with pressure nipple. Even while using the flex muffler, the angle of the exhaust manifold barely misses the firewall with the engine bolted on. The pressure tubing hits the firewall as I would not bend the pressure fitting any more with fear of kinking it permanently. My original solution which would work with the saito 120 would be to get a 90 degree exhaust manifold fitting from saito. Can you believe saito does not make one for the 120 but does in two sizes for the smaller singles? I wish saito had one then i could have used the stock setup. Another 40 bucks added to the cost of my plane. It looks like maybe all the parts in the hangar 9 arf kit are setup strictly for maybe the saito 100 from the pictures. who knows!!!!! Also, the stock tailwheel setup is pretty hokey. What else.....Other than that, a really nice kit. I hope mine flies well after I get bakc frm a business trip.
