Joe,

I hope you are kidding, the two most proficient 3Der's in our club are in their 70's. Of course the youngest club members are in their 50's. It seems like anyone under 40 around here is stuck in their living rooms playing video games. UGH!!!

Yeah I am totally kidding. The IMAC and pattern stuff is cool but nothing thrills me like doing all the 3D stuff. BTW I'm 42, no spring chicken.

i seriously think 3d is giving younger people a stronger interest in the hobby. i got into the hobby because i realized i could build something that could fly. once i started going to the feild and i saw a really good pilot hovering a showtime 2 feet off the ground with smoke everywhere and prop wash sounds ripping around, i was hooked. i went from being interested to obsessed. i am at the feild more than any other member now and it's only been 10 months i've been doing this. i may have gotten into aerobatics, but 3d made it much quicker and now i am slowly gaining interest in imac also.

Somewhere between 11 to 3F understand binary in my town,ASCII or EBCIDIC is out of the question.

Obsession is the word, I think I have it too. I've paid my dues lately though,several "hard landings" ,some didnt survive. I was just beginning to harrier land at will(in light winds anyway) and torque roll till I got board when another "hard landing"(I hate to say the "C" word)happened. All I have left is a 46 UCD which I dont like half as much as the 60. I will fix the 60 and I know when I,m back out there,the first flight I will be hovering,harriers,torque rolls....I would fall asleep if all I had to do was keep it upright and level.

i have found a good definition, [link=http://www.3drc.info/aerobatics/freestyle/index.htm]3DRC [/link] i think it sums it up

btw check it out on wikipedia

Climb,elevator,harrier,hover,crash,repair,climb,el evator,harrier,crash,buy,build,climb,elevator,harr ier..God this is fun!!!!

3 years ago I was out of the hobby for about 11 years. I came from a heavy pattern background flying Advanced and Expert Classes. Got burnt out, because it became more like work instead of fun, and if I didn't do well in competition, it was definitely no fun. When I was cleaning out my attic during a move, I got all my RC stuff down and ALMOST threw it all away, until I found my son's Trainer which was fully assembled and ready to fly (after new batteries and tuning), but never flown. I brought it out to a local club and saw somebody 3D'in a 30% extra. When I saw that, my mouth started drooling and my thumbs started twitching. (Like it used to do eleven years earlier). Now after 3D training on the Funatanas (all of them), EF Yaks, H9 Extra 260, 81" Velox, 85" QQ yak...............I AM HOOKED. More now, than I ever was when I was flying pattern. I not saying I am like QQS, Jason Shulman, or Smokin Joe McBride, but I have gotten real good w/ the whole 3D routine, ON THE DECK. The Pucker Factor is still there, but I am comfortable touching the tail in an elevator, hover, or pogo's. I guess what I am trying to say is, if it weren't for the fact that I could "Fly beyond the stall", I would not OBSESSED like I am now. In fact, somedays it is all I think about. Now I am about to maidien my 1st 35% aircraft (AW Extra 260), and inspiring the younger pilots at our field. 3D flying ROCKS! Most fun with your clothes on!

My definition of 3D Flying is maiking an airplane to fly beyond its original design at slow speeds, utilizing thrust for full control to move the airplane around without the use of lift from the wings.

my 2 cents
Rennie

I hope you have done better than me with the crash/repair thing. I can only bring it "Down on the Deck" for harriers and it has to be a nice day & feel right before I'll try it. I can hover a UCD 60 but so far not much lower than 15 ft. Even with the crashes,my enthusiasm always comes back,all I have to do is look at some videos or at a new 3-D model-speaking of which, the H9 Funtana X 100 looks tempting-I have a SA 150 ready for it. I,m 56 and I figure I might not be able to do it at 66 if I'm here at all. I do get a kick from it because it seems to defy gravity/physics-(not really, but the adreneline rush is there when it comes together.)I think 3-D is more for fun than competition,and it probably attracts the "showoff" part of me.

Mixmaster,

Its all about comfort level, and confidence. It's cool that that you are hovering at 15 ft. We have 70 y/o gentlemen at our field who are 3D fools and they have a blast! It took me a long time to bring it down below 15 ft. Keep it up!............trying to get lower! What really helped me build that conficence is hand/eye training w/ a flight simulator, namely the Ikarus Aerofly Pro Delux. The more you practice both "real" flying and "digital" flying, the gap between the both gets smaller and smaller, and before your know it, you find that simulator training has excellatrated the learning curve. I was scraping wing-tips on the ground with rolling harriers on the simulator a mont before I started doing them on my QQ Yak. Now I am about 10-15 ft. without the high "Pucker Factor" with my QQ Yak.

The Funtana X w/ a Saito 150 would be radically kewl! You Show-Off!

Rennie

I got over the mishaps,ordered the Funtana X just an hour ago,am repairing the Do,and still have Ultra RC Giles to finish(Brison 2.4). I have to be more selective on the days I get low and also how far away I do 3-D. I try to do it even in wind and like to keep it in a harrier for minutes at 3 ft.,several turn arounds required to do that. That is where I have most of my problems. I notice most of the other 3-D'ers(in my club) only do it for a few seconds and only in a straight line.I have to let up a little until the confidence is back again. By the way, the SA150 is not over-kill to me anyway,a friend has been flying the Funtana 90/S150 for over a year ,it weighs about 9lbs and does not rocket out of hover,but he only uses 15%,I prefer at least 20/20 for Saitos.(I get 20% for 15.50/gal and 30% for 17.00)I could tell you my source but then......

I mostly fly electrics. Not much glow in my hanger. 3D has opened up a whole new world of flying to me.

I like getting low and slow, hovering, torque rolling, slow harrier KE's all the way across the field. If some FOG doesnt like it, tough. Flying a low harrier isnt any more dangerous than some needle tweaking sport flyer doing inverted passes. I feel safer being around a 3D pilot with his plane in a hover than I do with some of these FOG's with a Kaos that only know two speeds ...on and off....yanking it around the sky in erratic flight. I dont pitch a fit when they do theirs, dont tantrum when I do mine.

At least the 3D pilot knows what the plane does when it stalls, and how to keep it in the air.

Luckily, most of the pilots here dont have a problem with 3D flying. Its all good. Many of the locals are either flying 3D or are in the process of learning it.

3D flying is here to stay for a long time. And as technology brings new things to model aviation its only going to grow. Reverse Pitch props...not just for electrics anymore, some of the glow guys are experimenting with them. Sooner or later there will be guys at the field with 40%'s and reverse pitch prop. They are already building them electric. The new thing in kits is making them lighter with larger control surfaces for 3D flight. Almost every manufacturer has a 3D capable extra, edge, or yak available now. All the top flyers are flying 3D. Even the F3Ai pattern now has a torque roll in it, so now the pattern guys are starting to recognize 3D maneuvers as valid aerobatic maneuvers.

3D ROCKS
Live Fly CIRKUS!!!!

Hmmmm? FOG,Fu... Old Goat?? Just guessing.Yep,with fuel costs going up every day,electric or gas will catch up to glow.One thing you can do with electric and neither gas/glow; tail slide with engine off,they are awesome!(its a crash with gas/glow).The other thing you can do with electric is yell "dead stick" and see who falls for it.

Mixmaster,
I'm the one who posted the stuff about precise and predictable. I was commenting on the level of skill it takes to do this truly well. Meaning it isn't something someone is likely to get bored with. I also flew lots of pattern back in the day. I think the beauty and balance of that stuck with me. Now, with 3D, I try to make it look much like a classic figure skating program. It (3D) offers the flyer a much greater range of expression (opinion). Once the basics are down, TR HAKE, harriers/rollers, it becomes about making the moves flow together. It requires a greater sense of timing to get that sense of flow because, I don't know, just because The pace of roll rate, sink rate in an elevator, the balance of a really good flat spin, all these states just seem more dynamic, more improvisatory to me than they do in traditional aerobatics. Anyway, not only is 3D a really cool discipline to become involved in, its a truly beautiful thing, worthy of anyones time.

Sorry for soundin' like a girl, guys, I just get carried away sometimes.....

Dave

All U RC Pilots and not one good simple answer..............

Flying on the Prop rather then Flying from the Wing is a simple definition of 3D.

All Airplanes fly because of the low Pressure on the upper wings surface. In 3 D the Wing is no longer the primary source of lift in all maneuvers the Engine Thrust is.

The reason Full Scale Aircraft don't do 3D is lack of Power. Our models typically have 2 times or greater to Fly 3D.

I can go on and but I think U will get the idea.

Ian

Ian,
I beg to differ. Many good answers, no simple ones

Are we having Fun? just call it 3D and enjoy it.
LIVE FLY CIRKUS

I didnt mean anything negative about my comment,actually I was talking more about myself who is in the process of "trying" to look precise in 3-D but it doesn't always happen. I would consider the smoothness you speak of to be the pinnacle of 3-D,to make up or follow a routine that looks like a pattern/IMAC sequence. I think I'll never be that good unless I quit my day job and ask my wife to support my addiction. I was just making a comment that the average flyer in the process of learning 3-D does not make it look appealing to everyone.Not that I really care too much what others think, I love the challenge & it is show-worthy flying.

Right, i knew that. I never thought you meant anything negative. I'm really enjoying everyones' perspectives on this. I find the fact that we're all working hard to learn something that is at once both highly technical and highly artistic inspiring. In fact, I ended up with today off and its to windy to fly so I'm spending the day on the sim, working on all the things we've been discussing

Play on!
Dave

Wish I had a simulator,I can see where it has speeded up the learning curve with others,after 3 years of trying,finally I can do a decent torque roll. Its funny,while the few of us "hard core" flyers trying like maniacs to perfect our 3-D, the others flying hardly even pay attention to us anymore. I did a harrier landing and none of them were even watching or seemed to care. To me, it was a mile-stone in a long and difficult endeavor. At least one other 3-D'er saw it and had some praise for me. I think I'm only the second guy in a club of 100 members to do this. It does seem like a "fad" to the majority of my club but I think its here to stay,hell, I've heard some full scale aerobatic pilots have taken up flying RC 40%'ers to see if they can do it with a full scale. Imagine, a full scale doing a torque roll on the deck! I think they might have to wrestle with the thrust/weight issue a little bit.

Harrier landing? That's awesome! a true milestone. i belong to 2 clubs in my area, and I'm the only one really trying to do 3D. Some guys talk about it, and during a flight will pull the nose up into a hover for a few seconds, But nobody's really going for it. There was one guy a couple of years ago that could get one, maybe on a good day two rotations of a TR but he moved away. So the guy I fly with most is a helicopter pilot. He's really good at 3D, too. So we watch each other, and critique each other's moves (I flew heli's for awhile too). Its really helpful. In fact, I'm developing some new moves (new for me) that I stumbled across by trying to do heli moves with an airplane. But I know what you mean about learning alone. Anyway, RCU really help keep the motivation up.

Good work, MiX. Keep it up!

Dave

I'm gonna give ya a run for the most time at the field

The RCU glossary shows 3D as

Flying beyond the stall!!!

I beleive QQ said this back when he started doing it

Harrier landing - bet you have got glass UC legs.

As a FOG who has been around RC for more than 45 years 3D flying is a currently keeping me amused and has definitely made me a better pilot. Favourite 3D model The Sledge but even a Bravo 303 will prop hang.

yeah, bubba, you are there a lot. i would say there are just 2 or 3 other guys at our field currenty who are trying this stuff out of about 100. i bet if it was less of a "mystery" to them, a lot more people would be doing it. to really get started, you MUST have a capable setup and i think that is a big obstacle getting in the way of sport pilots gettting into it. back when i flew a 4*, i could only imagine how to do 3d stuff, but as soon as i got a foamy, it was all there for me to try. i just had to learn to control it. i think a lot of people get discouraged by having plane\engine combos with only 1-1 thrust to weight. at least the plane companies are starting to reccommed better combos.

yay!