Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
06-11-2006 | 06:15 AM
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From: Columbia, SC
Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
I see one post on the whole page that actually TALKS about what this whole forum is supposed to be about! I am pretty tired of checking this forum for discussion about actually flying 3D as opposed to seeing posts about this plane or that plane....I see that on every other section of RCU that has anything to do with planes.
Why is this?
Engines should be discussed in the ENGINE forum...ARF planes in the ARF/RTF forum...
Is everyone just so lazy that they don't want to read and post in the other forums? Sad...a sea of knowledge wasted for those who are asking questions about YS tuning in the 3D forum (for example).[
]
Engine selection and performance in a particular airframe might be relevant, as long as you're talking about the 3D FLYING maneuvers and how they are enhanced or hindered by this engine/airframe setup.
It is too bad the "3D FLYING" forum is only a "club" where wana be 3d flyers hang out and talk about their stuff that should be discussed in the appropriate forum.
I guess I'm just disappointed.[:'(]
Why is this?
Engines should be discussed in the ENGINE forum...ARF planes in the ARF/RTF forum...
Is everyone just so lazy that they don't want to read and post in the other forums? Sad...a sea of knowledge wasted for those who are asking questions about YS tuning in the 3D forum (for example).[
]Engine selection and performance in a particular airframe might be relevant, as long as you're talking about the 3D FLYING maneuvers and how they are enhanced or hindered by this engine/airframe setup.
It is too bad the "3D FLYING" forum is only a "club" where wana be 3d flyers hang out and talk about their stuff that should be discussed in the appropriate forum.
I guess I'm just disappointed.[:'(]
06-11-2006 | 07:38 AM
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From: PerthWA, AUSTRALIA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
So what do you want to talk about then - Why not start a thread.
I see a lot of questions raised here by beginners to 3D, Things like - "How do I get started?", "What is a good combination to get started with?" or "Where can I find books on how to get started?".
the sea of knowledge on this forum generally sends a few posts that then lead to a thread getting away from the original question (Often very good information though for those of us that read a lot more threads than we post in) but I agree - there is very rarely much in the way of flying tips from the experienced flyers.
What would you like to know - maybe there are others out there with the same question but don't want to ask it - maybe the experience out there will help you to find the answer.
I see a lot of questions raised here by beginners to 3D, Things like - "How do I get started?", "What is a good combination to get started with?" or "Where can I find books on how to get started?".
the sea of knowledge on this forum generally sends a few posts that then lead to a thread getting away from the original question (Often very good information though for those of us that read a lot more threads than we post in) but I agree - there is very rarely much in the way of flying tips from the experienced flyers.
What would you like to know - maybe there are others out there with the same question but don't want to ask it - maybe the experience out there will help you to find the answer.
06-11-2006 | 07:51 AM
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WA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
I see one post on the whole page that actually TALKS about what this whole forum is supposed to be about! I am pretty tired of checking this forum for discussion about actually flying 3D as opposed to seeing posts about this plane or that plane....I see that on every other section of RCU that has anything to do with planes.
Why is this?
Engines should be discussed in the ENGINE forum...ARF planes in the ARF/RTF forum...
Is everyone just so lazy that they don't want to read and post in the other forums? Sad...a sea of knowledge wasted for those who are asking questions about YS tuning in the 3D forum (for example).[]
Engine selection and performance in a particular airframe might be relevant, as long as you're talking about the 3D FLYING maneuvers and how they are enhanced or hindered by this engine/airframe setup.
It is too bad the "3D FLYING" forum is only a "club" where wana be 3d flyers hang out and talk about their stuff that should be discussed in the appropriate forum.
I guess I'm just disappointed.[:'(]
I see one post on the whole page that actually TALKS about what this whole forum is supposed to be about! I am pretty tired of checking this forum for discussion about actually flying 3D as opposed to seeing posts about this plane or that plane....I see that on every other section of RCU that has anything to do with planes.
Why is this?
Engines should be discussed in the ENGINE forum...ARF planes in the ARF/RTF forum...
Is everyone just so lazy that they don't want to read and post in the other forums? Sad...a sea of knowledge wasted for those who are asking questions about YS tuning in the 3D forum (for example).[
]Engine selection and performance in a particular airframe might be relevant, as long as you're talking about the 3D FLYING maneuvers and how they are enhanced or hindered by this engine/airframe setup.
It is too bad the "3D FLYING" forum is only a "club" where wana be 3d flyers hang out and talk about their stuff that should be discussed in the appropriate forum.
I guess I'm just disappointed.[:'(]
06-11-2006 | 08:54 AM
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
The same 3D maneuver done on one plane will be done a little different on the plane you are flying. I have several good 3D setups from 40 size profiles to a 50cc BME Yak. 3D maneuvers are not done the same, one plane to the next. This is the reason you don't see a lot of "how to" threads. It's the idea of how to do the particular maneuver-not the particular control inputs. All I can say is that there are no magic answers to your questions. You need to watch experiment, and learn from your mistakes. If you need to ask how, you are probably not ready. I'll give you an example.
KE Loop
MOJO
Enter in a high alpha KE
Slowly add throttle to get it to climb (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
As you come over the top, center the rudder back off the throttle (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
As the nose starts to fall give full rudder (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
Start adding enough throttle to exit in a KE (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
50cc Yak
Enter in KE
Start adding enough rudder and high throttle to get the plane climbing (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
Once the nose starts coming over, center the rudder then back off throttle and add opposite rudder at or near the top to keep the loop round.
Once the nose starts falling add full rudder and full throttle & use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE.
Back off rudder and throttle and exit in knife edge.
In addition to this each of these planes requires different amounts of elevator & ailerons to keep in KE when applying different amounts of rudder & throttle.
KE Loop
MOJO
Enter in a high alpha KE
Slowly add throttle to get it to climb (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
As you come over the top, center the rudder back off the throttle (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
As the nose starts to fall give full rudder (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
Start adding enough throttle to exit in a KE (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
50cc Yak
Enter in KE
Start adding enough rudder and high throttle to get the plane climbing (use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE)
Once the nose starts coming over, center the rudder then back off throttle and add opposite rudder at or near the top to keep the loop round.
Once the nose starts falling add full rudder and full throttle & use elevator & ailerons to keep in KE.
Back off rudder and throttle and exit in knife edge.
In addition to this each of these planes requires different amounts of elevator & ailerons to keep in KE when applying different amounts of rudder & throttle.
06-11-2006 | 09:13 AM
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From: STEDMAN,
NC
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
If you dont like this forum than add to it by starting your own thread. If you are such hardcore 3d pilot and we are just wana be's, perhaps it is time for you to move on to other sites and leave us club members be. Im sure we wont miss your wealth of knowledge too much.
06-11-2006 | 09:50 AM
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From: Columbus,
GA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
If you notice I would say 70% of the post on the page are about 3D. This forum is for discussing 3D as a whole. Not just how!! You can post 3D videos, discuss 3D arfs, ask about what hi torque servos for 3D, what motor is best on a certain 3D plane, what prop is best for 3D on that motor. Its all 3D, if you want to just read about stick motions that sounds boring to me. Most people already know how to do them. I think we should have a FAQ thread at the top of the forum explaining all of the basic 3D questions (what plane, prop, motor, and how to on every manuver) after that anything 3D is fair game.
06-11-2006 | 12:19 PM
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From: Medford,
NJ
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
The problem (like WINGS pointed out) is flying 3D is almost all feel, there are no step by step instructions. It's like trying to explain to a child how to ride a bike without training wheels, you can't. One day, after some practice, it just happens. If you get to the point when "it happens" you'll be addicted and spend lots of time figuring out the waterfalls, inverted harrier etc etc etc etc.
It took two years of weekend flying before this soon to be 40 year old could TR on the deck.
It took two years of weekend flying before this soon to be 40 year old could TR on the deck.
06-11-2006 | 12:58 PM
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From: Clarks Summit, PA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
I see one post on the whole page that actually TALKS about what this whole forum is supposed to be about! I am pretty tired of checking this forum for discussion about actually flying 3D as opposed to seeing posts about this plane or that plane....I see that on every other section of RCU that has anything to do with planes.
I see one post on the whole page that actually TALKS about what this whole forum is supposed to be about! I am pretty tired of checking this forum for discussion about actually flying 3D as opposed to seeing posts about this plane or that plane....I see that on every other section of RCU that has anything to do with planes.
06-11-2006 | 01:08 PM
#11
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Yep,, most everyone here is just excited about the hobby and enjoying talking about it.. Many are eager to help and many are eager to stir the pot more than discuss the sport.
Everyone starts out as a wanna be... Funny thing is in the opinion of many, a 3D flyer might look like a wanna be, but in the presence of less experienced 3D flyers his insight is interesting, useful and ultimately beneficial.. It just depends on what perspective you are looking at the information from, some are more experienced and some are less. You dont necessarily have to be the most accomplished pilot to give sound advice. Furthermore, often time the suposed "authority" could learn a thing or two from a less experienced pilots fresh perspective.
Everyone starts out as a wanna be... Funny thing is in the opinion of many, a 3D flyer might look like a wanna be, but in the presence of less experienced 3D flyers his insight is interesting, useful and ultimately beneficial.. It just depends on what perspective you are looking at the information from, some are more experienced and some are less. You dont necessarily have to be the most accomplished pilot to give sound advice. Furthermore, often time the suposed "authority" could learn a thing or two from a less experienced pilots fresh perspective.
06-11-2006 | 01:11 PM
#12
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
ALso, as had been mentioned... GO and look back and you will see that virtually every question in the book has been asked... Lots of people get what they need by searching... Some like to post their own version of a question and see what sorts of personal resopnses they get.. I think either way is acceptable.
Dont be so rigid,, if you see a thread title that doesnt interest you just skip it.,,, Its not hurting a thing in the world to post a question about YS engine stuff here. There just might be someone who is better at tuning a YS engine than the mfg... As a matter of fact I can almost guarantee you that there are..[8D]
So, what questions about 3D do you want to ask?
Dont be so rigid,, if you see a thread title that doesnt interest you just skip it.,,, Its not hurting a thing in the world to post a question about YS engine stuff here. There just might be someone who is better at tuning a YS engine than the mfg... As a matter of fact I can almost guarantee you that there are..[8D]
So, what questions about 3D do you want to ask?
06-11-2006 | 01:16 PM
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From: Columbia, SC
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
I like the sticky idea...about having a topic that stays at the top describing some of the main elements of 3D and it's characteristics.
If writing about 3D FLYING, as the title of the topic is named, it should be called 3D set-up, or 3D Club, or something like that...I just thought most of the posts were off topic. You're right, I don't read much in here...I do a search and usually find the answers to my setup questions or aerodynamic queries in OTHER FORUMS.
We are all "wana-be's" to some degree...I wana-be as good as Quique or Hempel, but have a long way to go.
MikeEast: Thanks for your insiteful reply. Well said.
Thanks for the discussion about FLYING 3D.
If writing about 3D FLYING, as the title of the topic is named, it should be called 3D set-up, or 3D Club, or something like that...I just thought most of the posts were off topic. You're right, I don't read much in here...I do a search and usually find the answers to my setup questions or aerodynamic queries in OTHER FORUMS.
We are all "wana-be's" to some degree...I wana-be as good as Quique or Hempel, but have a long way to go.
MikeEast: Thanks for your insiteful reply. Well said.
Thanks for the discussion about FLYING 3D.
06-11-2006 | 05:22 PM
#14
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Anything related to 3D flying is welcome to be discussed in this forum, including flying the maneuvers, setting up 3D aircraft, etc. Enjoy the forum and 3D flight.
06-11-2006 | 10:04 PM
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From: Ballwin, MO
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Flyingtiger - I've thought the same thing many times but there a few reasons it is like this in my opinion. The guys that post on here regularly already know the basic stick movements for the most part. Its a matter of practice for many. Also, once you discuss how to do a move and a few bonus tips, there is not much else to discuss. If you want to know something, either start a thread and ask or do a search. Now the sticky idea is a good one so that those threads stay at the top. If you really wanna be "da man", go out and shoot an instructional video of some 3D moves and post it.
06-11-2006 | 10:05 PM
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From: johnson city, TN
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
OK I thought the title of this thread was interesting to me -- I am very new to airplanes (spent alot of time racing rc trucks and touring cars). I have wanted to get into flying for several years and finally have. I really have not even scratched the surface. I have read around this 3D forum and find really entertaining most of the videos on here blow my mind but I hoped I could learn something from this thread. Here are some of my elementary questions....
How about the terms -- I read of torque rolls and harriers etc and Knife edge is obvious but I think a link to videos that explain what a maneuver is and then shows an example of it would really be cool. So far I watch the videos just guess at what the planes are really doing.
now how about the search engine on here -- most of the time I get back no matches for what I look for -- I definitely am doing something wrong there. so if I wanted to find info on torque rolling what would I need to look for? most of what I read on 3D flying (here and the mags) seems to be written with the understanding that the reader already know what is going on. I hope that made sense.
anyway -- I am not trying to hijack your thread I just thought this seemed appropriate
I need a 3D for dummies book
How about the terms -- I read of torque rolls and harriers etc and Knife edge is obvious but I think a link to videos that explain what a maneuver is and then shows an example of it would really be cool. So far I watch the videos just guess at what the planes are really doing.
now how about the search engine on here -- most of the time I get back no matches for what I look for -- I definitely am doing something wrong there. so if I wanted to find info on torque rolling what would I need to look for? most of what I read on 3D flying (here and the mags) seems to be written with the understanding that the reader already know what is going on. I hope that made sense.
anyway -- I am not trying to hijack your thread I just thought this seemed appropriate
I need a 3D for dummies book
06-11-2006 | 11:08 PM
#17
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Hovering and torque rolling (well) is one of the most difficult things to do that there is. Its almost an uncoachable art. You just stand the airplane up on its tail and hold it there. It takes finesse on throttle, rudder, elevator and aileron to hang on the prop. Most people will start about 100-150' high and generally learn to get the feel for it.. As your skills improve you gradually bring the airplane down to where you can see it better and eventually most people end up only a few feet off of the ground, and many can touch the tail.
Hovering is just that.. The plane hangs at 80- 90 degrees in basically 1 sopt just sitting there relatively motionless strictly hanging on the thrust generated by the prop, using the control surfaces to balance the plane. Sortof like walking a tight rope. To prevent torque roll you have to hold in to stop the airplane from wanting to roll due to the torque generated by the engine and prop.
Torque Roll. Get the plane into a perfectly vertical hover and it will begin to pirouette in the opposite direction of the rotation of the prop due to torque. When the plane starts to torque roll you really have to be on your game as controls are reversing as the plane rotates its belly to you and then back to where the canopy is facing. It takes a tremendous amount of practice to get really proficient at it.. There are lots of folks who can sortof hover, but those who can really control a plane in a torque roll and make it look nice are few and far between. If you want to see a really nice video of some great torque rolling follow this link.
http://www.dodvideos.com/skaggs_01.wmv
Moderators, PLEASE dont delete this link.. There is not much out there to demonstrate torque rolling of this quality. This is a friend of mine ( e friend) that is about as good at torque rolling as anyone in the world. He is a really pure talent and believe it or not has only been doing this for a few years.
Hovering is just that.. The plane hangs at 80- 90 degrees in basically 1 sopt just sitting there relatively motionless strictly hanging on the thrust generated by the prop, using the control surfaces to balance the plane. Sortof like walking a tight rope. To prevent torque roll you have to hold in to stop the airplane from wanting to roll due to the torque generated by the engine and prop.
Torque Roll. Get the plane into a perfectly vertical hover and it will begin to pirouette in the opposite direction of the rotation of the prop due to torque. When the plane starts to torque roll you really have to be on your game as controls are reversing as the plane rotates its belly to you and then back to where the canopy is facing. It takes a tremendous amount of practice to get really proficient at it.. There are lots of folks who can sortof hover, but those who can really control a plane in a torque roll and make it look nice are few and far between. If you want to see a really nice video of some great torque rolling follow this link.
http://www.dodvideos.com/skaggs_01.wmv
Moderators, PLEASE dont delete this link.. There is not much out there to demonstrate torque rolling of this quality. This is a friend of mine ( e friend) that is about as good at torque rolling as anyone in the world. He is a really pure talent and believe it or not has only been doing this for a few years.
06-12-2006 | 10:42 AM
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From: williamstown,
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
I feel the same way you do to some extent,it seems after they are built & flying,you dont here back from everyone other than the first flight report. The first flight report to me shouldnt count much because of the excitement of new plane,the setup changes that might be needed later and most fly conservatively at first. I think the best flight feedback is after youve been flying them a while & are done the tweeking. Having said that,the tweeking part is very much a big part of 3-D & its good that there is a lot of technical info on this forum. It all matters,in fact, it can be the difference.
06-14-2006 | 08:31 AM
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From: williamstown,
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
I saw it,awe inspiring! To keep such fine altitude control while rolling is incredibly hard. Wonder how much he practices? I think I would have to give up my job,wife & family to get that good. mmmmmm,let me think about it,she gets half of everything,doh!!,there goes the money!
06-14-2006 | 08:45 AM
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From: PerthWA, AUSTRALIA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
And you call youself an aeromodeller? - I wouldn't have thought there was a question on that one - you can always earn more money!!
06-14-2006 | 11:35 AM
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From: Auburn,
WA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
ORIGINAL: MikeEast
Hovering and torque rolling (well) is one of the most difficult things to do that there is. Its almost an uncoachable art. You just stand the airplane up on its tail and hold it there. It takes finesse on throttle, rudder, elevator and aileron to hang on the prop. Most people will start about 100-150' high and generally learn to get the feel for it.. As your skills improve you gradually bring the airplane down to where you can see it better and eventually most people end up only a few feet off of the ground, and many can touch the tail.
Hovering is just that.. The plane hangs at 80- 90 degrees in basically 1 sopt just sitting there relatively motionless strictly hanging on the thrust generated by the prop, using the control surfaces to balance the plane. Sortof like walking a tight rope. To prevent torque roll you have to hold in to stop the airplane from wanting to roll due to the torque generated by the engine and prop.
Torque Roll. Get the plane into a perfectly vertical hover and it will begin to pirouette in the opposite direction of the rotation of the prop due to torque. When the plane starts to torque roll you really have to be on your game as controls are reversing as the plane rotates its belly to you and then back to where the canopy is facing. It takes a tremendous amount of practice to get really proficient at it.. There are lots of folks who can sortof hover, but those who can really control a plane in a torque roll and make it look nice are few and far between. If you want to see a really nice video of some great torque rolling follow this link.
http://www.dodvideos.com/skaggs_01.wmv
Moderators, PLEASE dont delete this link.. There is not much out there to demonstrate torque rolling of this quality. This is a friend of mine ( e friend) that is about as good at torque rolling as anyone in the world. He is a really pure talent and believe it or not has only been doing this for a few years.
Hovering and torque rolling (well) is one of the most difficult things to do that there is. Its almost an uncoachable art. You just stand the airplane up on its tail and hold it there. It takes finesse on throttle, rudder, elevator and aileron to hang on the prop. Most people will start about 100-150' high and generally learn to get the feel for it.. As your skills improve you gradually bring the airplane down to where you can see it better and eventually most people end up only a few feet off of the ground, and many can touch the tail.
Hovering is just that.. The plane hangs at 80- 90 degrees in basically 1 sopt just sitting there relatively motionless strictly hanging on the thrust generated by the prop, using the control surfaces to balance the plane. Sortof like walking a tight rope. To prevent torque roll you have to hold in to stop the airplane from wanting to roll due to the torque generated by the engine and prop.
Torque Roll. Get the plane into a perfectly vertical hover and it will begin to pirouette in the opposite direction of the rotation of the prop due to torque. When the plane starts to torque roll you really have to be on your game as controls are reversing as the plane rotates its belly to you and then back to where the canopy is facing. It takes a tremendous amount of practice to get really proficient at it.. There are lots of folks who can sortof hover, but those who can really control a plane in a torque roll and make it look nice are few and far between. If you want to see a really nice video of some great torque rolling follow this link.
http://www.dodvideos.com/skaggs_01.wmv
Moderators, PLEASE dont delete this link.. There is not much out there to demonstrate torque rolling of this quality. This is a friend of mine ( e friend) that is about as good at torque rolling as anyone in the world. He is a really pure talent and believe it or not has only been doing this for a few years.
06-14-2006 | 01:10 PM
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From: Newnan,
GA
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
I would like to see a forum subheading in 3D flying that is strictly for flight reports. If you make a first flight on an airframe or make changes to an airframe so it would fly better or just finally figure out how to get an airplane to do a particular maneuver- I would like to read about it. We could go straight to those posts. It would be easier than searching through a 60 page post to read the 10 or so flight reports.
06-14-2006 | 01:23 PM
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From: **,
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RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Since were throwing around ideas, what about a subforum for discussing 3d maneuvers and setup tips on how to get your plane to do them
06-15-2006 | 08:16 AM
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From: williamstown,
NJ
RE: Why hardly any talk about FLYING 3D!!!!
Thats what I feel is missing in this forum,flight reports after the first couple and after some changes to get the plane flying the way you want. Its true,you can be burnt out by the time you finish some of these threads,if we can keep separate sections like:building,first flight,final flight reports, this might help keep time spent to a minimum and still get what you want to know.
