I finally finished my DP Ultimate this week. Total build time was about 2 weeks with me spending a couple hours a night working on it. The building was straight forward and was quite enjoyable. Instructions were clear even for someone who has only built a few ARFs in the past. The DP Ultimate is my first large plane and first bipe, so I was very excited to get her finished and into the air. I maidened her today and she flew beautifully. Most of you know that the DP Ultimate flies well and at 11.5 pounds, the landings were cake. She floated in like a low wing trainer. I have a Saito 180 in the nose and the power was good. This plane will keep me grinning until I finish my first gas plane... a TOC1 Yak 54.

Very nice job..I would imagine the Saito will do quite nicely.
I see you are building a TOC1 also, here is my new site..showing us YAK guys videos and pics

www.airbornelizards.com


Bobzilla

nice job, i have had one for the last six years started with a saito 180, now has a os 160, needed more power, mine at 12lbs.,they are a tumbleing,blender machine,your goning to like it!
ENJOY!

Do you guys think the Saito 180 will give me unlimited vertical? I haven't had a chance to fly it WOT throttle yet. Thanks!

sAITO 1.80 close, but no banana's!
OS 1.60 yeppers
YS 1.40 YEEHA
3W150- YOU OTTA YOUR FR*GGIN MIND!!

BOBZ

with the 180 not total unlimited ,for most guy's it will be enough,it will be high but not out of sight, your at 11-1/2lbs. mite be a little better than mine at 12lbs. i am at 950 ft. ASL.they sure do sound GOOD with the 180.
ENJOY!

NOW ask me what engine I would like to have in the DP....
SAITO 180, not only it sounds good, it runs good, it never dead sticks, and it supports the American way of life of using as
much gas as you want!

I wonder how long it'll take me to want more power. hehe. Is the YS 140 significantly more powerful than the Saito 180?

bobzilla, did you have problems with the other engines?

closetguy, did you use a pump for your OS 160?

yep, in inverted flat spin it wantd to die,or in a blender the same,guy's have been useing a header tank also is to fix the problem,greaaaat power!never had a ys 140 to compare.
ENJOY!

I have a ys140DZ and just for RPm comparisons I can swing a an 18x6W at 9300+ rpm. This is at 6000' msl. I have never had a saito 180, but hope this helps.

I had a YS 140 and a Saito 180 in the H9 1/4 scale Cap. The power was very similar. If you want more than the Saito 180, you'd have to get a YS 140 or 160 DZ (if you want a 4 stroke).

I have a 180 in mine I run CP 30% heli fuel and I can spin my 18x6 well over 10k on most days, I usually dial it back to about 9600. Anyone who doesn't believe a 180 will give unlimited verticle is welcome to come watch mine disappear with beautiful smoke trail behind it.

Only problem I have is that it has a nasty snap if I try to do any wall type manuevers going to try mixing it out, but it has been annoying. I can do most of the manuevers nicely but it won't flatten out in spins, and will not do waterfalls (which i can do all day long on my Ucando 60) because of the snap problem.

I checked wing incidence, it is fine. All surfaces have been checked for level/correct. No aileron differential. I tried adding a bunch of weight to the tail to get it heavier in the butt, but it didn't seem to make much of a difference. Kind of frustrating because it flies IMAC style pretty nicely but doesn't want to 3D very well in any sort of high alpha manuever....

Try checking the pull pull tension. Under high stress the airplane used to snap on me because on elevator had slightly more tension. I fixed this by just throwing the setup out and replacing with two elevator servos.

I do find it hard to believe a saito 180 spinning a 18x6w apc over 10k. what brand prop? I do know a 19x6 Bolly CF will spin at around 10200 on a Ys140dz.

Hello,
I have been runnig the saito 180 in my dp ultimate for about a year now. Auw is 11lb 4oz. I think this is a really good combo. I am using 18x6 mezjlik with cf ultimate spinner. I also run 30% heli but I've never reached 10k. I am at 4300ft so this may be attainable at seal level? At first I was seeing about 8500. I opened up the cowl a bit and did some duct work to get all the air flowing over the cylinder head and gained 1050 rpm! So right know it max's at 9550 but I detuned it to 9300 for consistancy. Since the mod the ultimate now has unlimited verticle. And good pull out from a solid hover.

b0gh0s,
That seems a bit weird that it doesn't flatten out in the spins. Do you have enough throw? if so you may be a bit nose heavy. My ultimate gets completely flat with about 75-80% elevator at 100% it goes nose up and starts to wobble a bit. This is both up right side up and inverted.
At first i didn't like it for 3d. The key is to get the cg back. I ended up about 1/4 up from rear cabin. With an aft cg this is a totaly different plane. harriers up right very little wing rock, none while inverted and it is easier to manage in rollin harrier.

To flatten out the spin, also add a touch of throttle to keep the elevators soaked with prop wash.

kwboost. How does the mejzlik compare to the 18x6w apc? I am at 6000+ ft so i need all the power I can get. Not to mention mine comes in closer to 13 lbs. I have gone CF on my bigger airplanes, but haven't tried the smaller ones. Let me knoiw. I may give this combo a shot.

I havn't tried the apc props on the 180. The mezjlik is a good prop but not as light as some of the cheaper wood props. If you plan on going cf you may want to try pt models cf props. They are identical to mezjlik but a few ounces lighter. They are available at troybuilt models. Smallest size is 18x8. I plan on trying one in the future.

Flat spins: Yes I am easing throttle in, doesn't seem to help but I'm starting to think it might be a pullpull tension and possibly a balance issue now.

Nasty snap: I have been considering moving to a dual servo in the tail setup (especially since I have an extra 5945. I think you just convinced me.

Saito 180: Like I said, on a good day. I live in chicago (suburbs), typically in the fall when it starts to get a little dryer, and it is cool, (or early spring on a dry day), I can spin a standard APC 18x6 (not wide) right up to 10K sometimes over. Most days I end up right around 9500 once I tune but at times I've had to run it stinkin rich to keep the RPMs down. I must have gotten a good one but this thing has GOBS of power, honestly I've had similar luck with my Saito 100 to though. My ulty is somewhere north of 12 lbs and I can climb out of sight with ease. I have so much darn lead in the tail tho to balance it, I'm surprised it flies at all. I really like the idea of getting the servos back and getting rid of pull=pull. I just don't trust it.


Conversely on days where it is really damp, I end up running 87-9200 and there seems to be not so much umph. Chicago weather is a real b**** for engines totally inconsistent. Try running a heli on a tuned pipe here, you'll drive yourself bonkers.

I've heard nothing but good about YS engines, I personally got turned off to them from my experience with the heli 91 engine. It didn't make nearly the kind of power that the OS pumped engine did in the same heli. Ran smooth for about 4 gal, and then one of the bearings went (unbeknownst to me) and a ball split, half went into the con-rod crevice locking the engine, and the other half had gone earlier (suspected from post traumatic inspection), into the piston chamber ruining the piston, ring, and a $180 dual plug head. Needless to say I was not happy. I guess they put all their work into the airplane engines?

can you post pics of your dual servo installation? I'm looking for ideas.

I was thinking of doing a pair of carbon fiber servo mounts on my cnc to mount them as close as possible to the rear stab and use the H9 titanium turnbuckles and large dubro ball links.

Also did you keep pull/pull on the rudder?

Thoughts?

b0gh0s,
You may want to check the pull pull set up first. I honestly think one servo is plenty on the elevators. I did experience a problem during the first few flights of the elevator giving. Went up into a violent tumble (my favorite manuver with this plane and I've done this many times) and upon exit the elevator gave way and she headed for ground. Centered elevator and graduatley eased back in and she pulled out within about 10ft. This was scary[X(]. Turns out the pull pull was too tight, loosened it up a bit and the problem was gone. This was about 75 or so flights ago. I am using a single hitec 5625 on elevator and 5645 on rudder. I've put it through its paces and other than that one instance, I have never had a problem.
Oh yeah, I am running it at 6v.

I kept pull pull on the rudder, but decided to get rid of it on the elevator. not because it wasn't enough torque on one, but because it was much easier to sync, adjust the throws, and decrease the slop. While the pull pull elevator works, it doesn't work nearly as well as the two elevator servos. Not to mention the weight it adds to the tail (mine was very nose heavy).

I'll try to snap some pics, but essentially i mounted the servos vertically and reinforced the frame. i placed the servos a little bit infront of the stab and routed the 4-40 rod back to the bottom horn. Then I threw a piece of cf tube over that with some wheel collars to make sure the rod doesn't flex, and now the plane flies much much better. I'd recommend this. I'll see if i can get you some photos tonight. See ya.

Hey guys is just bought my first DP Ultimate. I picked it up used with a saito 180w/pitts muffler and a smoke system installed. This guy had a tone of weight on the front cowling, it must be to offset the smoke tank wich is behing the cg. He had a 16X8 wood prop which had to be spinning 11,000 ( i'm not sure i have not picked up a new meter yet, but it was zinging). I through that in the trash and installed a apc 18X6w and it has a good sound. I won't get to fly it for a while we got a lot of snow in wisconsin so if you present owners can send me any advice on what i need to look out for to prep it for fair weather I would appreciate it. And if anyone knows what the best CG for a good stable 3D fly please send it to me.

Thanks fellas

Which 18x6 is it? Is it the Mejzlik 18x6 CF?

Here is how it will do with a YS 140 DZ:

http://www.pedrofrigola.com/Ultimate%20Show.wmv

Saito 180 swings the same prop as YS 140 DZ at about 500 rpm slower, or smaller prop (1" diameter or 2" pitch) at the same rpm. So be your judge as to what performance you might get with a Saito 180.

This is not a light plane, unless you get a light one and end up less than 11 lb. ready to fly. As the video indicated, mine ended up at 12 lb. EXCLUDING cowl & wheel pants. 12.5 lb. airplane for Saito 180 is a little marginal.

Another thread talked about the issue of using Saito 150/180 and how its muffler interferes with the firewall and requires some cutout. I am not sure about that, but you might want to do a search.

YS 140 Sport can be had now for $400 from Central. It should be what you need. It's not as powerful as 140 DZ (disconued) but should outswing Saito 180 on APC 18x6W on the same 30% nitro fuel.

Yes, I thought I posted this figure somewhere. The Bolly 19x6 CF is something else. It makes APC props seem sluggish by comparison.

Sean you're gonna laugh but I am using a balanced 18x6 APC and I am consistently spinning mid 9Ks and over 10K on a good day. I must have gotten a good Saito but mine is a friggin horse. Only problem is that as mounted inverted, it will quit if I try to do a blender with it. I'm working on a few things to remedy tho I might just run header tank (I have bunch sitting around from my helis).

If I run a carbon prop I'd have to go to a 19inch.

I did the dual elevator servo conversion, made up some nice carbon servo mounts, it all came out really well. I'll post pics later this weekend.