SEE end of thread for my new question




This sumer will be dedicated to learn 3D stuffs. I flown dozens of planes in the last 15 years but I have never been very good aerobatic pilot.
I decided to practice this summer and try to move to a better level.

I exhumed my old SIG fazer, puted a OS.46 FX, builded a bigger rudder and putted all the flight controls throw to 50 degrees with a 50 procent expo. The CG is set at the recomended forward position.

the bird IS VERY FUNY to fly, but I am still FARRRRR AWAYYYY from hovering.....

just tell me if with that plane and that setup I have a chance to learn......

sure ya do... just start practicing a lot with it!

here is my second question

because I feel there is a chance that I will kill my fazer during low speed, low altitude maneuvres practices
I am already thinking for a succesor.
Will a moris knife be a good plane for my .46FX and 3D practice ?
won't the .46 FX be too heavy?

Don't practice low for a while.......then the Top Cap would be my choise.

The Fazer should work well, especially with larger surfaces. Someone at the field the other day let me fly his Fazer, and I was able to do some hovering with it. I didn't go too low because it wasn't my plane and he didn't have enough rudder even on high rates, but if set up properly it should hover like the other profiles.

Here is something I need to understand.

one of the suggested mixing on the fazer, is to mix the elevator with the flaps, they say that this will give super sharp loops....
They ask to mix so that when the elevator go up, the flaps go down.

I never used that mix on my fazer, but I already used my flaps
my flaps when set at 30 degrees give a big PITCH DOWN that I compensated by some up elevator mixing.

this effect seems to me to be in contradiction with the elevator to flaps mixing they call for.

can somebody explain me that eventualy and give me also the amount of flaps movement I shoud give regarding the elevator movements

There are several different types of set ups to try. Several people fly with the flaperon/spoilerons, on all the time. I prefer not to fly that way, I flip them on when I want to do something specific. Play with different things and see what you like.

As far as a Fazer.......great airplane. I find a Fazer flys better than many of the current profile planes and it's a 10 year old plane. A buddy of mine increased the moment about 5 inch's and increased the rudder as you did, powered it with a YS63 and that is a GREAT flyn plane.

Planes with longer moments (longer fuse) hover better than your typical profile plane. However different people like different types of flyn.

For your next plane........there are several great profiles out, Morris makes several or you can go to a true 3D plane. 3D plane would be like a UCD, Flip or a Laser 3D. Skip right over the Pizzaz and Dazzler.

what deflection should I give to my flaperon for a full elevator travel (50°) ?
do you also confirm that when elevator go down, flaps go up?

I forgot to mention that today I hovered my fazer for 3 seconds.....

Start at 50% and play with it. With todays radios you can fly, make a change, fly again and so on.

Make it so you can turn it on and off. Mix in Flaperon with up elevator, like you described, and you can also reverse it and mix up with spoileron, just to do something different.

as I understand, there is no real rule

Everithing is permit with a plane like a fazer as soon you can switch of your mix in case of emergency and that you try it Hig for the first time, LOLLLLLL

the setup I made before posting tonight, was 50 % flaperon for up elevator and 50% spoileron for down elevator
will try that tomorrow and see

Frank Noll Jr. said, "For $100 I can teach anyone to hover. Now go buy $100 worth of gas and practice." For us glow fuel guys he may have needed to say $200.

It's all about time in practice.

I like a flapperon mix and sometimes a spoileron. I like either to physically move about 50% of the elevator throw. Not just a 50% mix. Look at the mechanical pieces of the puzzle and maybe a 70% or 30% is needed. If I program an inch of elevator, I like 1/2 of that inch for flapperon. Some folks like a 1:1 mix.

The pitch down will usually happen when there is flap and no elevator. That's the real benefit of flapperons. They mix in proportion and not all at once.

For a replacement... The sky is officially now the limit. There are oodles of planes that will do just fine. The Morris Knife is said to be a good "hover trainer". The Aeron is said to be good too.

Otherwise, build another Fazer, and redesign the tail moment and surfaces. It's just a piece of 1/2 inch balsa. GO FOR IT!

I have the oportunity to buy a NIB laser 3D kit for $50, and I have a laser .62 four stroke engine (rare engine disontinued since 1993 but still very healty)

could this combo be great to progress in 3D ?

as 3D newbee, I ask myself what's the best way to learn enter the hover

fly low speed and progresivly raise the nose and give throttle or enter a vertical climb at normal speed and let the speed drop till the plane stop in the air ?

Laser 3D is a great plane.

Enter anyway you can get there. Slow it down, into the wind, pull the elevator back and play with the power and stand it up.

Salmonbug:

Phillipe, I just got a Magic, set up the rudder and elevator with cable pull/pull, hung an OS 46FX on it. Wont quite hover nose down, but it will do anything else. It's that responsive. Love it.

Bill.

after exploring the extreme trows territory this morning, It's clear that my rudder pushrod is bending. My fazer has the original long wires on rudder and elevator (servos in the wing). I will move the rudder servo in the back of the fuselage

I like to go to vertical the "hard way". I pull full up at or near idle. As speed dies off I already start to burp the throttle and bump the plane up to vertical the rest of the way. It seems to want to torque easier this way.

I have also tried to fly into the vertical position all at once, starting with lots of speed and then add throttle smoothly as the plane tries to tail slide. I get a better stationary hover with this method.

For the pushrod problem, is there any way you could fix the pushrods to the fuselage to help with the flex? Watch out for changing the CG too much.

this will be a good thing, in fact the plane was nose heavy, I had to put lead in the tail, now I will be able to remove some

What a deal! Go for it!

ok, the modification is done, quick job because it's wonderfull weather. the servo wire is runing on the bottom of the fuse, it's not very nice but functional. I go to the field, and make some cosmetic job tonight !!!


the plane balance great without extra lead now !!

It's a other plane, edge knifes are awesome now, It enter the spin with much more authority and my "hovering" progress are awesome. I am now able to hover for 5 seconds instead of 3, LOLLLLLL

I forgot to introduce you my 3D trainer
here he is. This Fazer flown 450 flights before retiring in my basement. he had two options the garbage or a complete overhall. I made the overhall, complete new covering, new rudder, shortened nose and os 46 FX to replace the old saito 45.

I admit the colors are ugly, but I tried to make the flight controls highly visible (especialy the rudders). My childrens made the covering on the top of wing using scrap oracover and the bottom of the wing is square yellow and black oracover scheme

He simply didn't want to die

PB:

Wow.

Bill.

I have some troubles to flat spin...
I here is how I try to do

1/3 throttle
full left rudder with full elevator, the plane enter a normal spin
after 2 or 3 turns I apply opposite aileron slowly.
my plane doesn't startt to flat spin, but start to spin opposite direction

it's now 10 flight that I practice without results

help please

PS: my hover training in on the good way, I will be able to do it for the end of the sumer, LOLLL