shantmeg

Hello guys, I have decided to purchase a Fliton Extra 330 Freestyle. I have a Saito 100 lyin around so I've decided on using that.

Some things I'm sure of now are:

I need to beef up the firewall
Prop: 15X6 APC
2.25 spinner
I might use a dual elevator setup.
Engine will be mounted inverted
15% nitro

So what I am unsure about is, I have seen guys setup all sorts of valves, uniflow and such up front. I have no idea about any of this stuff. I have also seen weird setups of throttle servos and stuff.
What are some recommendations when using the Siato 100 in this plane? And overall setup tips?

another question is the mixing, What do i ned to mix (as far as the radio is concerned, not the fuel)

KWJ48

I can suggest a single elev set up.. just join the halves with a " [ " shaped wire or I ended up using a piece of carbon fiber tube.

As far as a fuel tank set up it all depends. I tried valves and regulators, but the only thing that seemed to work was lowering the tank outlet to be level with the carb slider. Some guys had no trouble at all.

Not sure about throttle servo... I used a HS 85 mg in the stock location.

Radio mixing is up to the individual flying the plane. I fly with no mix only expo.

Really go through the thread.

shantmeg

I'm used to fling simpler planes (just getting into 3D) like GP Lancair and Hangar 9 T-34 etc.
The thing about the thread on here, aside from the length, is that for someone like me there is alot of info, many conflicting views. So I just don't know what is the best way to go. I'd like it to be as simple as possible.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

You do not need anything out of the ordinary. Just use a 3 line system.

One line goes from the clunk to the carb.
Second line goes from the second, shorter clunked line to the filler tube (capped with a fuel dot, this is where you fill the tank)
Third line is the vent line. This line loops is on the vent inside the tank. The fuel tubing outside the tank loops back to the top(back) of the tank and then back forward and out the bottom of the plane near the firewall. This allows the tank to vent, but fuel will not drain out of the tank in flight.

shantmeg

Mike, What about the line from the muffler?

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Oh yeah, I forgot that the Saito 100 has a pressure tap on the muffler.

That is where the vent line from the tank connects. The exhaust pressure pressurizes the ful tank.

You can use a 2 line system and just put a Tee in the fuel supply line from the tank to the carburetor, but the fuel tends to pour out of the carb when you are filling unless you use a pair of hemostats to pinch the fuel line at the carb while youa re filling. The 3 line system is a much neater way to fuel the engine.

shantmeg

Ok, thought so. I usually use a 2-line method with a T and use hemostats like you said but I think a 3-line would make is a bit easier. Yea its messy with dripping especially with inverted engines.

KWJ48

Mike, it seems your set up is more intended for a gasser. You don't need the loop. The line going from pick-up to carb will siphon possibly causing it to flood, or be hard to start. I never tried hemostats, the fuel lines were too hard to get to with the cowl on. On mine, the original tank outlet sat quite a bit above the carb slider, before I modified/lowered the tank mount.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

No actually it ( the loop in the ventline) is intended for either gas or glow and it works well for both. In my comment I am talking about the vent line not the fuel pickup line. If the tank is vented to the air (not getting pressure from the exhaust) and the nose is pointed straight down the tank will drain out of the vent line everytime. The only way to stop it is to loop the vent line back to the rear of the tank so that when the plane is vertical the fuel wont drain out because the head in the vent line is higher than the head in the tank. Obviously if the fuel tank vent is connected to the exhaust vent fitting then the point is moot.

The 3 line clunk system works great for gas and glow models as well. You just have to put a fuel dot in the fueling line after you fill. It totally eliminates the problem with fuel running out of the carb when you fill, if it is a problem at all. I only use it when I cannot access the fuel line due to a cowling. When the engine is exposed, I just pull the fuel line off of the carb inlet, fill and then replace the fuel tubing.

shantmeg

I think i just thought of a simpler version. What about using a 2-line method, putting a T in the pressure line with a one-way valve before the T. That way you can fill it from there without worrying about the fuel going back into the muffler. The carb line would be untouched.

So another Q. is what are some better components to use on this kit, I want to get pretty good components to raise the reliability of the things i have heard others complain about in other threads. For example, any upgraded y-systems or servo horns, etc?

I saw this beautiful cowl job I'm thinking of doing.. Its so well cut...

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

As long as you can vent the pressure off of the tank as you fill that would be great. Just watch the tank as you fill and make sure that it does not balloon up. There is a good chance that it will. Its a great idea, IF it works.

As far as component upgrades, in the grand scheme this is a pretty small plane with minimal electrical load so there in not much need for upgrade. Standard extensions and switches should be ok. You might upgrade to a HD switch but I dont think its really necessary. The real place to make this plane stand up and dance is in using the right servos and minimizing excess weight. The smaller the plane, the more critical the small weight savings become. Going with Lithium batteries although not necessary is a good upgrade and a way to save a couple of ounces. Also going with a higher Nitro fuel will make that Saito really come to life.

High speed digital servos would really make a difference. Something like a Hitec 5945 or even better 5985s on the control surfaces would make a big difference. I would not use the 5600 series servos if you really want optimal performance. They are ok, but they are a little slower and a lot sloppier. The 5900 series servos really do make a difference. That or a JR/Futaba equivalent servo like the 9350.

shantmeg

I see. I have a saito which has been broken in and ran on 15% will switching to 30% do anything? and also what size lipo you recommend?

KWJ48

I totally agree Mike with the vent, but with the tank/clunk being higher than the carb, (which is how mine originally ended up with, inverted engine) the line from the tank to the carb will siphon, filling the carb with fuel. Once the flow starts it's hard to stop it unless you remove the source, or raise the carb line higher than the clunk. Like siphioning fuel out of a car gas tank. As long as the catch can is lower than the vehicle's gas tank, and you can get the fuel flowing, it will flow until you, remove the hose from the tank or raise the hose higher than the tank.

This was my experience with this plane, so I just thought I would share. Also it is my favorite plane to fly.

KWJ48

Shantmeg, with 30% there is an increase in power and the Saito's seem to idle better, at least in my Saito. Mike can fill you in on the lipos, since I have not used them in my plane.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

oooooh, I get it. Duh, you are talking about a different problem. That is that the tank sits above the carb and the fuel siphons out into the carb and into your cowl and all over the table and kills the grass and gets on your shoes and all that I am sure this is worse on this plane with a Saito because for some reason that I have yet to research, the fuel free flows into a Saito moreso than other engines. At least my 1.20 and my 1.25 were that way too. They were the ones that I learned to use hemostats on for that very reason.

Lowering the tank is probably the best option to solve that problem I would agree.

ON going to 30% fuel you DEFINITELY get a boost in performance with 30% fuel. I like to use Cool Power 30% heli fuel. It smoke a little more than non heli fuel but it makes incredible power and the CP fuels are incredibly consistent, moreso than any other fuels I have used. I pay $24/gal for CP but man does it make a YS or a Saito stand up and dance.

Lithium. Lithium is lighter than Nickel based batteries by a pretty good bit. I use Lithium Ion 2 cell 7.4V packs in all my planes now but I am working on switching to A123 packs which is a new badass super stable, super fast charging super high output form of Lithium battery. A 2400(ish) mah Lithium Ion pack will weigh about 2 ounces less than a 1500mah NiCad or NiMH pack and give you about 10 more flights per charge. You will have to regulate Lithium Ion down to 6V but to me its worth it. You can do the same thing with Lipoly, just use a 2 cell pack. With A123 you do not need regulators if you are running 6V servos. They run at about 6.6V for a 2 cell pack.

Again the way of the future is A123, they are stable, will not catch on fire, you can charge them in about 15 minutes, they have no memory, they can put out a ridiculously high burst of amps, way more than a 1.00 plane could ever use and they are super light. I am waiting on my first set right now. I hope to have them in a couple of weeks, but I have been using Lithium Ion for about 3 years and I love them.

There is a guy out there who makes some really light and high output NiMH packs too. His website is www.hangtimes.com. NoBS batteries. I have used several of his packs and they are the lightest NiMH packs out there and they hold up great.

KWJ48

[sm=idea.gif]

shantmeg

Sweet! I will research the A123. I has 2100 3 cells, but i thought those would be too huge. thanks for the great info

shantmeg

OK prolly gonna pick it up this week when i sell my chopper. I'm a lil terrified about the pull-pull system and a y-system, never dealt with both.

So I was looking at servos and it looks like the prices are going to kill me. What should I buy?

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

How much do you have to spend on servos? We can see if we can help you make a good choice with the money you have.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Since this is all still a little new to you, you might just stick with 5 cell NiMH batteries for now. They wont require a regulator and they are a charge and go battery pack and a lot easier to deal with.

shantmeg

Yea, I think im going to stick with nimh. I would like spend as little as possible on servos yet, still keeping performance high. Which are the best maybe in the ~$50 range? I'm gonna go get one ordered today at my LHS. I'm excited about the Extra... Is it a good plane to learn 3d on?

shantmeg

I ordered it rom hobby-lobby today, they had 20% off. So now all i need is to decide on the servos.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

For around $50, Hitec 5625's would get the job done reasonably well. They are plenty of torque and pretty decent speed at 6 volts. They are not quite as precise as the 5900 series but they will do ok.

No kidding around, you dont want to be stingy on servos if you want to seriously fly 3D. Good equipment makes all the difference in the world in how well the plane handles. If you have the money buy good servos, they are definitely worth it. If you are on a strict budget that is one thing, but if you have the money you really will not regret buying good servos because it really does make a difference in performance, a pretty significant difference. [8D]

shantmeg

SWEET! Ill be pickin some up this week.

shantmeg

Money is an issue... I had an offer on4 futaba 9350's shipped at $360, but i just spent $160 on the extra and $335 on a spektrum dx7 with case and 2 recievers. Im broke.