Hi, for anyone who's built this ARF, I have a few comments, and questions.

First, I've built many models, ARF's, kits, and from scratch. And this is without a doubt the worst model I have EVER come across. I'm less than half done, and I'm ready to send it back to Great Planes.

Here is what has happened.

1. The covering is SO wrinkled even with heat it doesn't tighten up, and in the spots that it does, within 5 minutes is wrinkled again.

2. On the stab fairing, where you cut out the top piece that bolts down, the covering literally fell off, and pulls away from the fuse. Worse yet, it will not stick back down. this is the case on the wing where I cut out the servo bays as well, I had to wipe some CA under the covering to keep it down.

3. This is the one that REALLY p*ssed me off. I was mounting the engine, tightening the mount bolts (not a death grip, just as tight as you'd normally go) and the firewall came out of the airplane (I took a pic of this and will post it tomorrow) and there was NO glue on anything but the triangle reinforcement stock. This would have come out with running the engine for sure.

Those are the main problems I've run across, other things I don't like are....

Use 90oz good servos, but they screw into 1/8" lite ply! When the firewall fell out, I noticed it too is 1/8" lite ply with a small 1/8" lite ply doubler.

When I glued the firewall back in, I made sure it went back EXACTLY where it was, I mean, it fit like a glove, and I clamped it in good and tight. I finally get the engine mounted, and it has 7 degrees LEFT thrust and 6 degrees of UP thrust. With shims I got it close to where I think it should be (about 3 degrees right and 2 degrees down) but regardless, whether it's shimmed to where I have it, or left to sit straight with the firewall, the cowling will not even come close to lining up.

This might be nitpicking now but, I was putting a Supertiger 90 on it, 14x6 is the standard prop for this engine, the supplied spinner won't accept the hub for a 14x6. APC, zinger wood, top flite wood, master airscrew, none will fit between the spinner bolt flanges.


So, my question is, does this airplane fly well enough to warrant bothering anymore? Or should I just pack it up and send it back, I'm so sick of looking at it right now I want nothing to do with it.

What has your experiences been?

My experience was flawless. Everything about the kit was great; sounds like you got a lemon. The spinner being too small is expected; the instructions even tell you that if you're running a 90 then you won't be able to use it. Plane flies great.

wow. Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I agree with above, you got a lemon, mine didnt have any of those problems - the covering only needed a heat gun in a couple of places, everthing was glued nicely, everything lined up perfectly, didnt reinforce anything.
Sounds to me like you've worked through enough you might as well finish. It is a lot of fun to fly.

Yup, you definitely got a bad one.

There are literally thousands of these in current use. Check out the long-running UCD thread; I believe it has become the longest one ever on this board. This is one popular airplane.

My covering was wrinkled somewhat, and it took a LONG time at high heat to get it back down; especially on the turtle deck. But I stayed with it and eventually got it right.

I'm less than thrilled with the way the wing bolts fit. And the stock tail wheel assembly needs replacing, as it won't survive many rough landings. But other than that, it has been an exemplary model for me.

It has the widest flight envelope of any model I've ever flown.

I dunno if yours is worth salvaging; but it is certainly worth sending back to The Empire for a replacement. Yeah, I know; major PITA. But that's one of the risks of mail order.

I waited several months for a LHS to get some in before buying mine, just for this reason. If anything went bad, it was his problem.

Contact them; they're usually pretty good about working with you.

Jeremy, my UCD was in great shape right out of the box. You definitely got a lemon. Whether you get the problems straightened out on that one, or get a replacement, you will love how it flies. Don't give up on the UCD just yet!

Hi Jeremy,

After reading your fault list, I thought you somehow got a hold of my UCD!

Mine was missing all the blocks in the tail that you were suppose to cut out, and all the covering was just loose & severely wrinkled in this area. A Heat gun & Iron (turned almost all the way up) still wouldn't iron it down. I worked on ironing out the wrinkles & sags for hours, and finally gave up. I just decided that this was going to be my 'flying' plane, and not one of my 'beauty queens'. After reading your modeling background, I'm guessing that your experience here is the same as mine. We are just use to our covering be on flat, and everything being the way it is suppose to be. When reading peoples reviews of ARFS, you have to remember that they are describing them compared to other ARFS. At least I hope they are? Either that, or peoples building skills sure have degraded over the years. Because I've NEVER seen any ARF that lives up to the standards I like to build to. I've seen some pretty good airframes on some. But the covering jobs are ALWAYS a mess.

I didn't really inspect all the joints yet, but those that I did seem to only have a bead of hot melt glue in the corners, and much of what I've checked out isn't bonded that well to the wood (which has me worried about the engine mount, since I can't really get up in there to do anything. A few of the glue joints were lifting up, so I gave a little tug on them, and without any effort at all, they just peeled right off! These joints will be easy to re-glue, since there is NO glue on them anymore. But this has me wondering about the integrity of the other joints, and I don't know how I'll be able to add glue to a joint that already has hot melt glue on it?

I did cut a access hole thru my cockpit floor to gain access to the landing gear block, and hopefully see how good the motor mount was glued in. I've heard from several people that the landing gear block may rip out on a bad landing or two. This didn't seem to bad though, as they got it pinned in the front, and a small little angle block in the back. I'm also considering replacing the tail wheel assembly. There seems to be allot of people saying that this is a good idea, and I fly from a pretty rough grass field.

Anyway, as Steve mentioned, there is enough UCD's around to suggest that it is a very good flying plane, and one worthy of finishing up. I just hope mine holds to together long enough to make it worth the purchase price. I'm always scared buying ARF's. But I guess these are the risks you are taking when somebody builds your plane for a bowl of rice a day.

...Maybe Scratch & Kit builders were never meant to buy ARF's...but they do (in most cases) get you in the air quicker, if that is where you want to be!

I'll give it another go, unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that I need to cut my firewall off and straighten the front of the fuse as the engine thrust is soooooo far off.
I believe it must be a great flying airplane, but my main concern came when the firewall came out. Had this not happened, I'm sure I'd have ended up with a spinner prop in my lap. I will get the picture up in the next couple hours, there was literally no glue on the mating surfaces except on the triangle stock.

It's a new day, with a fresh outlook, I'll go look it over again, I'm not one to let a model beat me, and this sure won't be one to beat me. It's sure a dissappointment though, the covering I could have lived with, but one thing I refuse to have is a crooked airplane, and with the firewall where it is, there is no chance this thing will fly straight

Oh well, back out I go, thank you for the reassurment that it flies very well

Jeremy

My experience


Liked it so much I bought a spare.


Sorry you got a Lemon.

If anybody is interested that lives in Memphis, TN I have a used one for sell.

I bought one.
Covering is REALLY REALLY BAD!
Stock tank location is wrong for an inverted motor. Especially a 4 stroke.
I dont like the way it flies. Its fun for a sport plane but IMO is horrible for any 3D other than hovering.
The pitch coupling with rudder is really really bad.

I have have ten flights on mine and I'm ready to sell it.

Hey Wayne,

Did you change anything on your UCD (like the fuel tank set-up), or did you just leave everything stock? Any advice (except to sell it) would be appreciated. As I don't have much of it put together yet, and mods would be easy at this point.

I only got it because I've never flown a 3D model before, and the word on the forum is that it was a good cheap plane to get your foot in the door.

Mark

I solved the tank issue by installing a Cline regulator for my Saito 1.00

Easy fix once you get past the $62.00 bucks.

Other than that, I have no mods on it.

Dont get me wrong, Its not a horrible flying plane. I just think its a horrible flying 3D plane.
It is easy to hover though.....

deryckere You're right about the foot in the door part. I've seen a few of these fly and finally got a chance to get one myself. Take the time to fix it correctly and you'll be rewarded with a wonderful 3D trainer. The covering on mine was pretty wrinkled so I spent a couple of hours with the iron and all is well. I trashed the tailwheel and pushrods in favor of a sullivan tail wheel and carbon fiber push rods. I also mounted the tank on the CG (ys engine). I still haven't had a chance to maiden mine yet. I really hope is flies as good as others I've flown. Just my $.00002

Thanks for the info Wayne & trailingedge!

I already replaced all the pushrods with 4-40 stuff, and I'm probably going to make a new tail wheel assembly with springs. Not that I'm scared of braking the one that came with the kit, but I want to take some of the abuse off of my new (and expensive...for me anyway) digital servos I'm using. I'm thinking of adding a little bit of epoxy to the inner firewall, too. Maybe some of it will wick in. I also plan on putting a couple more little reinforcements in the landing gear mounting area. But that should be it.

trailingedge...when you realigned your gas tank, did you have to go in and hog out the formers to accept your new location?

...If I'm going to be flying a horrible plane, I want it to be the BEST horrible plane I can fly!

Thanks again for the help!

Mark

I agree that the plane is a great sport type of airplane. I sold mine months ago. It flops around the sky alright but for real 3D it is very lacking. Sure it is easy to hover but thats about it.

Mark, I did what you did except left the stock tailwheel unit and used ball links with the 4-40 rods (on all surfaces) and got a good Dubro control horn for the rudder. Oh, I used the Dubro heavy duty extra large servo arms too. With a 90 ounce rudder servo it will pinwheel. Harriers are a rocky experience and blenders aren't the tightest, but hovering is very confidence-inspiring and this plane does the coolest Parachutes I've ever seen.

Flyfalcons,

I didn't mention it in my last post, but I am using the Dubro Heavy Duty arms, as well. I got GP 4-40 Ball links for the servo ends, and GP 4-40 Solder Links for the horn end. I'm thinking of swapping out the stock control horns, the solder links, or maybe both. Because the space between the 2 arms on the GP solder links is bigger than the thickness of the control horns. This allows it to float a little, and I'm worried that this, coupled with the movement of the ball links, will wear out the hole in the control horn very quickly. I also don't care for the way the plastic control horns nut plate warps up when you tighten the screws. I'm thinking of adding 2 more screws (for a total of 4) if I keep them. If I don't, I'm thinking of maybe using Sulivan 4-40 links & Sulivan steal control horns instead.

The only connections I have set-up right now are the ailerons. I used the last hole in both the control horn (the ones described in the back of the UCD manual for 3D) & the servo arm. Is this how you have your's set-up? I notice with the digital servos that I have to dial out allot of the servo travel to stop it from over-traveling, and I wasn't sure if this was acceptable or not? I've always heard that it is best to use as much of the servos travel as possible. But these Hitec digital servos travel over 180 degrees! So I would have to take out allot anyway. I heard standard servos only have about 80-90 degrees of travel. Anyway, do you have any advice for me concerning setting up these digital servos. I don't know if the same rules apply that apply to standard servos. This is obviously my first time using them.

Thanks for the reply,

Mark

Mark, I don't have experience with the Hitec digitals, but I set my radio up so I could use the most servo travel available and get the desired full control surface deflection. I am also using solder links on all my control rods on the horn side and haven't had a problem yet. I set up my elevators with the control rod connected to the outermost hole on the servo arm and control horn. At 140% deflection (150 for JR) I have approximately 50 degrees of elevator travel. For the rudder I am using the longest Dubro servo arm (1.25" I believe) and the second-from-the-inside hole on the Dubro control horn. At 140% deflection I get something like 55-60 degrees of travel, which is more than enough. On my ailerons I used the outermost hole in the control horns and the second-to-last hole on the servo arms. I am using standard precision servos on the ailerons and I wanted to limit the travel to allow better mechanical advantage and reduce the chance of flutter. I still have enough throw to do very fast rolls and torque roll to the right. When setting up your low rates, use the book's recommended high rates. The book's recommended low rates are far too small to do regular aerobatics, let alone 3D. Use some expo on high rates to tame the elevators, as they can get sensitive with full deflection. You can see a few vids of mine at my website. I'm also putting a freestyle routine together with mine and that will be posted hopefully within a week.

Thanks again for the advice Ryan!

Mark

Well, due to the comments about how this bird flies, I pressed on today, I ran the fuse through the bandsaw to cut a new face for a firewall. Put a new firewall on, the cowl still doesnt' line up worth a darn, but I will just live with that.
I will also accept the wrinkled covering

So, anyway, all I really have left to do now is hook up the control linkages and finish installing the radio gear I guess.

Thanks for the comments, I do hope it flies well, as that was my reason for buying the kit. The turbines are fun, but sometimes I just wanna wring it out.

Anyway, one other question, 90oz servos, ok, I'm using JR 8231 (I think) 88oz digital servo's on all surfaces, I've soaked the wood for the screws with thin CA. Is the 1/8" lite ply sufficient for that? I use 1/8" 7ply in my jets, but still with a spruce backer for the screws. Has anyone had any problems with the servo mounting in this bird? I'm going to put spruce strips behind unless I hear it's not really necessary.


thank you

Jeremy

No problems thus far with the servo mounts. I have standards on elevators and ailerons, and a 90 ounce 4735 on the rudder. I'm sure the 8231s will be just fine. Many people are over-powering their surfaces with 120oz+ servos, which are totally unnecessary for this bird.

Ditto no problem with the servo mounts. I'm running 9252 digitals on elevator /aileron and a 9202 analog on rudder.

I replaced all linkage hardware with DuBro 1/4 scale stuff (the large black horns that attach with four 2/56 bolts, 4/40 pushrods with ball links). My pal has this heavy-duty hardware on his, too. He has a lot more flights on his UCD than I do on mine, and he reports that the Dubro ball links are beginning to get rather sloppy. We both are big into helicopters, so he knows the difference between a sloppy ball link and one that APPEARS to be sloppy.

Mine are still good, but I only have about 30 flights on them. He has 50 flights or more on his.

Since you are into jets, I assume you are NOT a bright-eyed rookie with his first "real" aerobatic model. Neither me...

I'm really not interested in the extreme flip-flopping stuff and other exotic manuevers this model was designed to do. It does fly very well, although the supplied control linkages will not stand up to serious "3D". It is standard 40-60 size nylon stuff, with 2/56 rods, and will bend. The model still is a good value for what it costs; it just hasn't "lit my fire" like I thought it would. I will be pulling the engine and servos out of it when I get around to acquiring a CG Ultimate ARF.

But unlike most of the planes I try and get tired of quickly, this one will not be sold. It will hang in the spare room, ready for re-activation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't be surprised if this airplane doesn't make you all wet. I had to have one after flying my pal's, but now that I've got some time on it, it is just another model; one of seven UCD's at my club...<G>

Steve

deryckere, I kinda cheated and didn't get the tank exactly on the CG. I cut the front bulkhead to fit the tand and pressed the back of the tank against the rear (piece of foam inbetween of course). It's so close to the CG that I don't think I'll even notice the change. Hope this hepls.

That's another thing I was wondering about...

Do the cut-outs in the front bulkheads allow you to put foam around the supplied gas tank, or is everyone installing the tank without foam? If this is the case, is anyone having problems with the fuel foaming up from the tank contacting the wood structure?

Mark

No foam around the fuel tank, and no problems at all. I can say the same for a couple other ARFs that I have.