Belly-In Hovering
12-07-2008 | 08:55 AM
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From: Rocky Mount, NC
Belly-In Hovering
Can someone please give me some tips on Belly-In hovering? I can hover with the top of fuse toward me all day, but cant get the hang of the belly toward me to put everything together.
Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Engine Designer
Any tips would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Engine Designer
12-07-2008 | 11:09 AM
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From: Idaho Falls,
ID
RE: Belly-In Hovering
Whichever wing drops, move the rudder in the same direction as the dropped wing. Just remember not to do that when you looking at the canopy. Oh.....and lots and lots of practice.Thanks
Barry
12-07-2008 | 02:52 PM
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From: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
RE: Belly-In Hovering
Yep, the "rule of thumb" is to push the rudder towards the wing that is falling.
However, as Barry has pointed out, don't just practice belly-in without doing the same amount of regular hovering or you'll tend to get too used to pushing the rudder that way.
Your aileron input remains the same but elevator will work backwards although I had no problems with that when I was learning because up still causes the model to pitch towards the canopy and down still causes it to pitch towards the gear.
One good way to get used to hovering bot belly and canopy-in is torque-rolling. In a torque roll (or aileron roll in the hover) your perspective relative to the model will be constantly changing so you'll develop a "reflex" ability to put the right input in.
Practise on the sim and burn lots of fuel.
However, as Barry has pointed out, don't just practice belly-in without doing the same amount of regular hovering or you'll tend to get too used to pushing the rudder that way.
Your aileron input remains the same but elevator will work backwards although I had no problems with that when I was learning because up still causes the model to pitch towards the canopy and down still causes it to pitch towards the gear.
One good way to get used to hovering bot belly and canopy-in is torque-rolling. In a torque roll (or aileron roll in the hover) your perspective relative to the model will be constantly changing so you'll develop a "reflex" ability to put the right input in.
Practise on the sim and burn lots of fuel.
12-07-2008 | 11:38 PM
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RE: Belly-In Hovering
I also look at the tail when I am hovering belly in. That is, I push the rudder stick in the direction that I want the tail to go when I am looking at the belly. When I am looking at the canopy I push the rudder stick in the direction that I want the nose to go.
Not to beat a dead horse but I will affirm what has been said about stick time.... Hovering is not easy,,, it takes a LOT of practice to get good at it and the tough part is that it is easier as you get the plane closer to you but most people are afraid (for good reason) of getting a spinning prop too close...[8D] Lots of fuel and sim time and it will become second nature.
Not to beat a dead horse but I will affirm what has been said about stick time.... Hovering is not easy,,, it takes a LOT of practice to get good at it and the tough part is that it is easier as you get the plane closer to you but most people are afraid (for good reason) of getting a spinning prop too close...[8D] Lots of fuel and sim time and it will become second nature.
12-08-2008 | 01:25 PM
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RE: Belly-In Hovering
All good suggestions.
You'll of course also get really stumped when a wing tip faces you and you'll need to correct the rudder differently depending on which one that is.
I highly recommend getting a durable airplane which can stand taking some knocks close to the ground. One of the many EPP offerings will serve you well and eventually you'll be able to practice in your driveway or backyard. Learning close to yourself is the way to go once you're competent enough to not "scare yourself" or others.
You'll of course also get really stumped when a wing tip faces you and you'll need to correct the rudder differently depending on which one that is.
I highly recommend getting a durable airplane which can stand taking some knocks close to the ground. One of the many EPP offerings will serve you well and eventually you'll be able to practice in your driveway or backyard. Learning close to yourself is the way to go once you're competent enough to not "scare yourself" or others.
12-09-2008 | 11:47 PM
#7
RE: Belly-In Hovering
There's 4 rules to 3D:
1 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the top of the plane.......... you fly the wing on top. The wing closest to the ground doesn't mean anything. The rule is TOP WING BACK. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the top wing is moving. Top Wing Back keeps the nose up.
2 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the bottom of the plane.......... you fly the wing on the bottom. The wing on top doesn't mean anything when you see the bottom of the plane. The rule is BOTTOM WING FORWARD. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the bottom wing is moving. Bottom Wing Forward keeps the nose up.
3 - when hovering and looking at the top of the plane...you fly the TOP of the plane. Fly the part on top. The nose. Use rudder input to move the nose where you want it.
4 - when hovering and looking at the bottom of the plane...you fly the BOTTOM of the plane. When you see the bottom, you FLY the bottom. Fly the tail. Use rudder input to move your tail under the plane and put the tail where you need it.
Knife Edge:
See the top? FLY the top. Top wing BACK.
See the bottom? FLY the bottom. Bottom wing FORWARD.
Hovering:
See the canopy? Fly the nose.
See the bottom? Fly the tail.
Once you take all the "thinking" out of the equation and just follow very simple rules, it gets MUCH easier. Soon it becomes 2nd nature and you don't even think about it.
Try it on the sim. In 15 minutes you'll be doing rollers 10' off the deck.
My problem is I don't have the balls to do it down on the deck with a real one that costs money when I stuff it. [
]
So, I'm building a profile. Hoping to get SERIOUS about 3D this winter and coming spring season. Fingers crossed. [:-]
1 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the top of the plane.......... you fly the wing on top. The wing closest to the ground doesn't mean anything. The rule is TOP WING BACK. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the top wing is moving. Top Wing Back keeps the nose up.
2 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the bottom of the plane.......... you fly the wing on the bottom. The wing on top doesn't mean anything when you see the bottom of the plane. The rule is BOTTOM WING FORWARD. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the bottom wing is moving. Bottom Wing Forward keeps the nose up.
3 - when hovering and looking at the top of the plane...you fly the TOP of the plane. Fly the part on top. The nose. Use rudder input to move the nose where you want it.
4 - when hovering and looking at the bottom of the plane...you fly the BOTTOM of the plane. When you see the bottom, you FLY the bottom. Fly the tail. Use rudder input to move your tail under the plane and put the tail where you need it.
Knife Edge:
See the top? FLY the top. Top wing BACK.
See the bottom? FLY the bottom. Bottom wing FORWARD.
Hovering:
See the canopy? Fly the nose.
See the bottom? Fly the tail.
Once you take all the "thinking" out of the equation and just follow very simple rules, it gets MUCH easier. Soon it becomes 2nd nature and you don't even think about it.
Try it on the sim. In 15 minutes you'll be doing rollers 10' off the deck.
My problem is I don't have the balls to do it down on the deck with a real one that costs money when I stuff it. [
]So, I'm building a profile. Hoping to get SERIOUS about 3D this winter and coming spring season. Fingers crossed. [:-]
12-10-2008 | 02:24 AM
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From: Greenville, SC
RE: Belly-In Hovering
RCPilot, you forgot the most import rule about ANY kind of flying (especially 3D). When inverted, down is up and up is expensive. Seriously though, there really aren't any tricks to 3d-ing besides the dreaded p-word. PRACTICE. I used to be TERRIBLE at belly-in hovering. One day I got fed up with my TR's faling out when I was belly-in so I chucked my little electric profile (Charger CR1....awesome plane) into the air and wasted 3 batteries worth of electrons doing almost nothing but belly-in hovering. Needless to say that my first attempt was under ten seconds (I mean hovering, get your minds out of the gutter [>:]) and my last attempt was nearly two minutes....and that's only b/c my battery started dying. Get some stick time, whether on a sim or a real plane....it's the only way.
12-10-2008 | 01:23 PM
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From: Charlottesville,
VA
RE: Belly-In Hovering
ORIGINAL: Rcpilot
There's 4 rules to 3D:
1 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the top of the plane.......... you fly the wing on top. The wing closest to the ground doesn't mean anything. The rule is TOP WING BACK. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the top wing is moving. Top Wing Back keeps the nose up.
2 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the bottom of the plane.......... you fly the wing on the bottom. The wing on top doesn't mean anything when you see the bottom of the plane. The rule is BOTTOM WING FORWARD. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the bottom wing is moving. Bottom Wing Forward keeps the nose up.
3 - when hovering and looking at the top of the plane...you fly the TOP of the plane. Fly the part on top. The nose. Use rudder input to move the nose where you want it.
4 - when hovering and looking at the bottom of the plane...you fly the BOTTOM of the plane. When you see the bottom, you FLY the bottom. Fly the tail. Use rudder input to move your tail under the plane and put the tail where you need it.
Knife Edge:
See the top? FLY the top. Top wing BACK.
See the bottom? FLY the bottom. Bottom wing FORWARD.
Hovering:
See the canopy? Fly the nose.
See the bottom? Fly the tail.
Once you take all the "thinking" out of the equation and just follow very simple rules, it gets MUCH easier. Soon it becomes 2nd nature and you don't even think about it.
Try it on the sim. In 15 minutes you'll be doing rollers 10' off the deck.
My problem is I don't have the balls to do it down on the deck with a real one that costs money when I stuff it. []
So, I'm building a profile. Hoping to get SERIOUS about 3D this winter and coming spring season. Fingers crossed. [:-]
There's 4 rules to 3D:
1 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the top of the plane.......... you fly the wing on top. The wing closest to the ground doesn't mean anything. The rule is TOP WING BACK. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the top wing is moving. Top Wing Back keeps the nose up.
2 - if you are in knife edge flight and you see the bottom of the plane.......... you fly the wing on the bottom. The wing on top doesn't mean anything when you see the bottom of the plane. The rule is BOTTOM WING FORWARD. Push the rudder stick as if it was controlling the direction the bottom wing is moving. Bottom Wing Forward keeps the nose up.
3 - when hovering and looking at the top of the plane...you fly the TOP of the plane. Fly the part on top. The nose. Use rudder input to move the nose where you want it.
4 - when hovering and looking at the bottom of the plane...you fly the BOTTOM of the plane. When you see the bottom, you FLY the bottom. Fly the tail. Use rudder input to move your tail under the plane and put the tail where you need it.
Knife Edge:
See the top? FLY the top. Top wing BACK.
See the bottom? FLY the bottom. Bottom wing FORWARD.
Hovering:
See the canopy? Fly the nose.
See the bottom? Fly the tail.
Once you take all the "thinking" out of the equation and just follow very simple rules, it gets MUCH easier. Soon it becomes 2nd nature and you don't even think about it.
Try it on the sim. In 15 minutes you'll be doing rollers 10' off the deck.
My problem is I don't have the balls to do it down on the deck with a real one that costs money when I stuff it. [
]So, I'm building a profile. Hoping to get SERIOUS about 3D this winter and coming spring season. Fingers crossed. [:-]
Dude, that's about the best explanation I've seen. Simple and EASY to understand. Thanks!
And speaking of that profile, I can only assume it's your MoJo....the subject of the ill-fated build thread.
How's it progressing? If you wanna sneak in a pic or two, I'm sure no one would object.
12-10-2008 | 10:09 PM
#10
RE: Belly-In Hovering
Erik,
I'm in the middle of 2 kit builds right now. The 80" Midwest Citabria and the Mojo 60. The Mojo is ready to cover and finish, but I'm short on $$ for the motor (SK90 2 stroke) and I am pushing to get the Citabria done in time for a big show in late January. I have all the parts to finish the Citabria now, so I'll be concentrating on that. I'm considering entering the Citabria in a "Beginners" class of a local building contest. I'll probably finish the Mojo this winter and fly it in the spring.
I'm in the middle of 2 kit builds right now. The 80" Midwest Citabria and the Mojo 60. The Mojo is ready to cover and finish, but I'm short on $$ for the motor (SK90 2 stroke) and I am pushing to get the Citabria done in time for a big show in late January. I have all the parts to finish the Citabria now, so I'll be concentrating on that. I'm considering entering the Citabria in a "Beginners" class of a local building contest. I'll probably finish the Mojo this winter and fly it in the spring.
