RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Redundancy isn't a "how necessary" question... it's whatever you feel comfortable with.

I don;t use redundant systems in a plane this big...

Unless you use a Battshare or SuperReg from Smart-Fly, you're not really redundnant... two regs on 2 switches isn't a real good thing. As I understand it, one reg will start out the "lead" and won't let go.

The battshare or SuperReg shares the battery with a single quality reg...

I use a sinlge 4800 on my 50cc stuff... a single 2400 is marginal amp capacity. At 2.5C ratings... you only have about 6 amp capacity... an 50cc 3D plane can be pounding that pretty hard with 5-7 digital servos... at 4800 mah.. you increase to 12 amps... more suited to this size aircraft.

This is personal preference based on the figures I shared... some will disagree... come to your own conclusion.

I would rather run a 2 cell 2100 lipo than a 2400 lion... as the lipos are rated at 15-20c not 2.5...

While the 2 cell lions will take it... it places potential risks of battery failure through over-discharging... and in the least case... reduced life.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Hi Maudib or anyone using a DA-50 in their DV,

What standoff length did you guys end up using? I've read that some added a 1/4 spacer to the standoffs (just under 1 1/2" ) that came with the plane, but that still leaves the needles right where the firewall is.

I measure that using 2" stand offs will get the needles just past the firewall and still allow the cowl to cover the fuse sides.

What about the balance? Does the plane tend to be tail heavy due to the long tail moment so I can use a little longer stand off to my benefit?

I can't imagine just mounting the engine so that the needles are at the same location as the firewall. What gives?

Any info is appreciated.

Dan

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

AIRBIKE
thats just what i did my da came with 2-1/2 stand offs i cut a 1/2 off them and retap them and as you know that just gets the needles outside firewall, my ignition pack 2500 AA sets on top of fuel tank at the first former of canopy hatch opening, the RX pack 2500 AA next to the rudder servo,just a tad nose heavy,not bad at all.
ENJOY!

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

I'm with closetguy... just check your cowl can slide past that far out and still catch the "corner" down by the gear...

I went with 1.75" total... the rear needle is kinda inline with the firewall but I'm able to get to it... but again if 2" will sneak ya past and cowl fit (I'm sure it will if closetguy did it) then I see no reason not to.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

yep, you can JUST cover the corner and have room to fasten it.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

I went with the recommended 1 1/4" stand offs. My high needle is inside the firewall. The low needle is just into the firewall. I drilled a hole through the firewall and the cowl at the low needle, and through the fuse side and cowl for the high needle. I can put a screw driver through the holes to adjust the needles.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll be making some 2" standoffs from 1" dia wood dowel as this length will also allow the standard DA muffler to clear the firewall. I could always shorten them down a little if the cowl fit requires it.

Boy, I want ot get this thing in the air!!!

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

OK, Double Vision is ready for maiden flight!


One more question for those already flying the DV....Where did you like the CG at?

The manual that I downloaded from Chip's site said the CG range is 8.5 to 9.5 behind top wing LE,

in another part of the manual, it says 8.5 to 9.5 behind top wing LE, measured with the wings OFF.

Right now I checked the CG with the wings OFF and it is at 9.5

I actually haven't even fully assembled the plane yet due to space constraints. I'll do that outside tomorrow.

I need to put a slow charge on the new batteries and then cycle it at least once before flying.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Mine feels great balanced without the wings or canopy hatch on and finger on the forward former of the hatch opening (but mine is also 1st gen).

I understand the wing was set back 1" on the 2nd gen... so I really can't say.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

OK can someone confirm that I made a BIG mistake by doing the stab modification on the Generation II SE version????

It was a very hairy test flight to take off right into a hover...at least it was a very nice hover...


The kit came with no instructions and Chief Aircraft indicated that I should just download the manual from Chip's site. Well, I had read about the tail mod here and it was mentioned in the manual so (like an idiot without checking first) I lowered the front pin by 1/8"

I guess that gave me a BIG up elev, hence the takeoff into a hover. On top of that, the JR Scanselect 790 Rx didn't want to be in this plane and kept going in and out of pcm lockout. It was all I could do to get everything back on the ground in one piece without damage.


I switched out the receiver and did another test flight...needed about 1/2" of down elev to fly level. Really couldn't do any trimming with the stab like that.

Anyways, any confirmation that I made a big boo boo before I get the soldering iron and torch to heat up the stab pin for removal????[:@]

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

The SE version does not need the mod. If you look at the Chip Hyde website were it shows the download for the Double Vision, it states anything after 01/01/05 does not need the mod.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Thanks db, it turned out to be an easy fix to un-do the mod. Already fixed and waiting for another test flight (fright)...

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Ditto... just confirming that NONE of the Gen 2 (new scheme) DV's need the mod...

There was a second batch of 1st gen DV's I belive that had the mod already done.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

CRAP!!! CRAP!!! CRAP!!! I just bought the DV in August and did the stab modification JUST LAST NIGHT!!! except i 20min epoxied everything. This brings to mind 3 questions.
1. Why does Chip still have the mod in the download? I mean is there really a chance that he has a old plane from '05 still in the hopper?
2. How do I fix this?
3. Is it possible to correct with ele. poss.
:(
Any help would be appreciated!!!

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

What did you do glue the tube into the stabs too? They are still removable? If so you should be able to file the epoxy down close to teh antirotation pin and tap it free...

There are people with first Gen planes in box... my buddy has one.

A notice was placed on the website on the download link... it will be added to the manual too...

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Niceflattop, I didn't glue the stabs to the fuse so my stabs were removable. Then I used a big soldering iron to heat up the alum pin until the epoxy got soft and I twisted the pin off with a pair of pliers. I used JB weld for the mod but I was able to punch it right out and then reset the pin to the original position.

Now if you 20 min epoxied the stab to the fuse and everything else, then thats gonna be a tough one to undo.

I had a couple more flights last Sat and still need to dial it in to my liking. The cg seems ok as it holds a 45 inverted upline without climbing and does not climb when in level inverted flight. But I'm still carrying about 1/4 inch down elev trim.

KE coupling is pretty bad. I've got about 9% up elev to rud mix and about 8% opposite ail to rud. I need to play around with a more forward cg to see if I can reduce the coupling mixes.

Any comments on trimming the plane is welcomed. This plane is intended to be a 3D beater but I'm a little worried about the airframe intergrity if flown hard on a regular basis.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Airbike-

Unfortunately for reasons of stability and the fact that I don't want anything moving around back there, I glued the horz. stabs. to the fuse. Arg! I thought sleeping on it would help my "creative undoing thought process" but it hasn't helped. That's a great idea using the heat to soften the epoxy but it's a no-go with the horz. stabs glued. I'm called Chip Hyde's office to see if they are willing to supply some additional stabs do to the confusion with the manual.....we'll see what they say. While I was on the phone they said that another person had called about the same thing today as well. So its not just us. I still think they should remove it from the on-line manual.

On another note you said that you flew it with the horz. stab. in the 1/8 down possition. How bad was it? Could you ever trim it out?

Thanks for the help. Again any help would be great.

Niceflattop

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

niceflattop, DON'T FLY IT WITH THE STAB MOD.

My test flights were very scary and I almost lost the plane. On a slow take off, it will want to climb like a very tail heavy plane. I made it around and landed. I checked the CG and it seemed close, so I added more expo to the elev and added a bunch of down trim.

Second takeoff popped into a hover (seemingly by itself), I got it nosed over and trimmed out with about 1/2" down elev. I was able to fly around to feel out the plane, but it never felt locked in.

I would see what Chip can do for you about replacement stabs.

One option: if you can get a hold of a hot wire foam cutting rig (that some people use to cut foam cores with), you could try to slice through the epoxy between the stab and the fuse. I think the wire may be called Ni-chrome wire or something like that. There might be other types of wire that can be used too. Use caution if you try this to avoid burning yourself!!!

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

The manual has been updated now and states that the shown mod is NOT required for later models.

Did you glue the stab tube into the fuse and stabs? if so how do you plan on making that work with replacement stabs if you can't clear the stabtube from the fuse?

It's too bad you glued the stab on... it would have been a much easier fix with no need for new parts.


If it's all glued hard... you may have to come in from the bottom cut through the phenolic and stabtube as well as the aluminum pin. (leabing only the little bit through the fuse sides to contend with. THen maybe some digging with a razor knife will loosen the stabs fromt he fuse (if you even applied glue to the stab roots/fuse)

You'll then have to deal with either getting a new phenolic sleeve somewhere, or creating doubler discs to hold the new stab tube without a sleeve.

I specifically knew I didn't want to glue the stab pin/tubes/stabs in case I had a booboo that require replacement.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

Thanks guys!
I am still waiting for Chip to get back to me from my phone call on Tuesday and then today. We'll see what he says.

Thanks again.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

We'll Chip finally called me back on Friday and he said that he would not back up his on-line manual. It sure would have been nice to have the two disclaimer sentences on my on-line manual like he has now put on the mod sheet this week, since I raised this concern with his manual.

Chip you have been very helpful up until this point and I love this plane. Don't you think that if it's worth putting 2 disclaimer sentences on your down-loadable manual, to save others from making the same mistake, that you didn't make it clear enough in the first place. Mistakes do happen, and when it lies in a gray area the right thing to do is to help your customers. This is a unfortunate blemish on an other wise very helpful record. I hope you can come through for me.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

It constantly amazes me that those who dont read the website / forums find themselves in trouble. I dont understand how you can hold Chip responsible for your lazyness in doing the proper homework. It is clearly on the website and has been posted a number of times in this thread. I dont even have a DV (yet) as I have been researching all the ins and outs of this plane. Now this may just be my preferance and thats fine but this is how I do my research. I know the plane very well BEFORE I even buy it. Chip is great and has answered my questions honestly and how you can have an expectation that he owes you something for you not doing the proper research and just plain reading is beyond me.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

What, now we're expected to go do research and homework before you even buy an arf? Give me a break. Yes, I do research but it should not be the expected way to disseminate information.

I bought the DV from Chief and I downloaded the manual from Chip's site before I even bought the plane. The site DID NOT mention that the stab mods were not required. Either I totally missed it or it was added it after I had already downloaded the manual. Yes I blamed myself for not verifying the mod before I did it but it was not clearly stated in any of the materials I had.

When there is a change as critical as this stab mod, there should have been a simple page of addendum to the manual inserted into each of the Gen 2 kits. What, 200 copies at .03 ea is about $6, heck the addendum could have been a quarter sheet of paper, wow, $1.50 to make sure that the manuals are corrected.

OR, the manual should have been updated for the Gen 2 models so that there would be no uncertainty about the stab mod.

On another note, I had another 4 flights on the DV today. The rudder coupling is bad. I guess I'll have to move the CG fwd even more and see if that helps any. I'm already at 8 to 10% mixes for the elev and ail.

KE is awesome! KE loops where I can actually control easily how low to pull out.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

In reality when the stabs were glued a situation was created that was NOT intructed by the manual. Even if the mod was performed and not needed, it could have been easily reversed had the manual been followed. The stabs removed and the pin relocated. Chip really can't be held liable for mods performed outside his instructions.

I'm not trying to give niceflattop a hard time, cause I'm bummed for him... but by gluing in the stabs/tubes/pins a simple fix went to a more complex one.

I believe with some planning this plane can be put back right and offer lots of flying enjoyment.

RE: Its Here!! Double Vision
 

I can't seem to figure out how someone could miss the sentence directly below the link to the DV manual. You would almost need to run your pointer over the statement that says stab mod not needed on any kits built after 12/05.