RE: GP Cap 232
 

My 160 is sitting on the bench due to the fact that I converted all of my planes over to gas. It's cleaner, cheaper and, IMO, more reliable. With the price of the new engines coming out they aren't much different then the big glo engines. If you really want to over-power this thing for all out 3D go with the 50cc but the 160 will 3D it as you saw in the videos. BTW that was about the 4th flight on my plane and engine in the video with Kyle flying it so it wasn't really even broken in yet. That's why he kept it high. Didn't want the engine to hiccup with the rudder 6" off of the ground.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Another thing to consider with this particular bird is the gas tank orientation. My first attempt was with a Moki 1.80. To make a long story short I was going to have to pump it and do the plumbing thing(funny I bocked at this since I'm a plumber). It's currently being retro'd to a gasser for convenience and reliability.
In no way am I saying glow is not reliable it's just that a gas engine seems to be a better fit for this plane given the logistics of the set up and, like Lou said it sure is a lot cleaner and cheaper in the long run.
If you have it just sitting there, I'd go gas in a heart beat. Just my .02:D.
Best of luck which ever you decide.
Rod

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I wouldnt go as far to say this Cap is a better fit with a gas engine. A 160 does a fine job. Mine weights in a 12 lb 3 oz, I can hover it a atad over half throttle. Now throw in a gas engine and leave the plane stock as in not going with carbon prop, spinner ,no wheel pants etc and your pushing the 14-15 lb range. You guys have to remember that this Cap has a 79 inch wing span with 1168 sq inches of wing area. I've watched Lou's videos with the 160 and the 40 cc in his Cap and you can tell that with the 160 in it that it flys better on the wing. More 3-D like. I'm sure some of you might differ, but thats what it looks like to me. I'm sure Lou will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.:D I might add, that 3D is more than pulling out of a hover like a foamy. I saved my DA 50 for a true gasser plane with 1400 sq inches plus.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Sewerdude,

I very rarely disagree with you but this time I will. We've all seen Vinny's video using the 160 and he loved it. He then flew mine with the DA50 at 13.75lbs and he said it flew just as well. He felt hovering was a bit harder because of needing more aileron throw but a simple radio change cured that and he felt that it did waterfalls better, KE spins are blinding fast, pullout from a hover is defintely foamie power, tumbles (true Lomcaveks which are nose over tail going in line with the line of flight, not to the side) are a thing of beauty and most of all it still floats. I flew his on the OS160 and I can tell you first hand that I could not really tell much difference.

Now the real kicker is, he did a lot of cutting to get to the weight he had and used a Pro Zinger to loose even more weight and get faster engine spool up instead of the APC 18X6W, lost the wheel pants and no spinner

At my weight, I have everything installed except for one servo tray and used all the stock hardware except for the control rods, for those, I used Titanium turnbuckles for everything but the rudder and Central Hobbies CF rod for the rudder

I do have to be careful not to really bounce a landing as it will strike the prop but this thing floats so well in ground effect that greasers are super easy to do. The only thing is IMAC. I used it during the last meet and it does take some work. I took 6th [:'(] as I did not really have it trimmed as well as it should (to tail heavy) I moved the battery forward to right behind the tank at the end of the first day and ran the the 2 sequences with it on Sunday and took first in both. I have since left it there and I can still 3D the snot out of it and it still slows to a crawl for landings.

I do admit I go through a lot more trimming than most people do

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Let's all keep in mind that I put an SPE 40cc in mine and it's just starting to break in. I'm sure that with a 3MM, DA, or DL50 it would totally out perform the 40. I just put a 3MM 53CC in a 16 pound 10 ounce WH Edge and it will outperform the Cap with the 40 hands down. In fact, until recently the 160 outperformed the 40. I only just got to run the 20X8 Xoar due to the long break-in time on these engines (3 gallons of gas). No question the 160 flies this plane like a dream but if I have to choose between $20.00 a gallon and $3.00, I'm going with gas. My next move will be to replace the 40 with a 50. BTW, welcome back Jeff!! Haven't seen ya on here lately.:D:D:D:D Hope you're done dodging twisters.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Al and Sewerdude,

I honestly was not trying to start an argument. I was just stating that while I tend to agree with sewerdude, this time I disagree on some points. Oh yea, 3D is more than hovering and this thing does some of the best rollers I've ever seen and upright flat spins are a blast once yo get the ailerons and power setting to where the plane likes it. The best thing is you can throw loads of very high "G" maneuvers at it and the worst it will do is crack the canopy floor, I speak from experience on this one. I've glued mine at least 3 times and finally gave up because a new crack would appear right next to the glue and one other spot was the bottom of the fuselage between the wing and engine box. Dang tumbles really twist this frame [X(]

I suspect the 40 does just fine and the Xoar may be a bit too much load as it's a slightly wider blade. I tested one on my Da50 and I lost a couple of hundred rpm over the PT models 22x8. I forget what 40 you are using.

I know you are using the 20x8 but I'm just thinking out loud. As far as a long breakin time, 3 gallons is not bad considering a DA needs five on ashless then another 5 on synthetic until it's finished. The 40 is probably not done until at least 10 gallons but the original three is to get the ring and everything else seated.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Great to hear from ya Sewer. Miss reading your posts. there were 2 major things keeping me from going gas. Number 1 as always was cost and 2 was all the extra weight.After my "issues" with the Moki and I'll go right ahead and say the Issues are largley in part probably due to my own shortcomings, I started checking a little closer. The BME 44 I've chosen weighs 3lbs, 1oz WITH Pitts muff and ign. The O.S. 1.60 weighs 2lbs, 8oz according to the specs on Tower's site. I can live with 10 oz's as both are well within the wing loading. The cost of the BME was $0.00(traded it straight across for the Moki:D). Will I be this fortunate next time...HECK NO! So we have the cost issue. I talked to a guy tonight who I was ordering some custom graphics from. He was telling me he has a DA50 and a DL50. He ran them both on the same plane with the same prop and spinner and got nearly identical readouts as far as thrust and rpm's. what I'm getting at(slowley)is that there are a lot of really good gas engines coming onto the market that well suit the needs of a sunday(and maybe wednesday) flier at a more affordable price. I think the DL is around $400.00 with muff, stand offs and ign. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Will we be seeing the big boys with a DL sticker on their birds, probably not. A novice at best like me would probably never be able to apprerciate the difference, But that DA sticker really looks cool on the cowl. What will be interesting to see is if a LOT of folks start using the DL's, CK's and such will their prices go up or will the DA's and 3W's come down. In a nut shell the way I see it a lot of the "cons" with the smaller gassers have worked themselves out. On the other hand my O.S. BGX-1 3500 is flat flying the wings off of my 80" Extra. It's among the most reliable motors I've ever had. In my case it was just easier to swap out the engine than totally rework the system I had. Guess I was just a bit lazy but given how it's turned out I'm glad I made the switch;).

In absolutley no way do I mean to be or sound argumentative. Just wanted to share my experience and findings. When it comes down to it who cares how you have fun, just have it:D:D:D.

Again, great to hear from ya dude. You may crucify me now:D.
Happy flyin'
Rod

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Sorry if I sounded like I was arguing. Certainly not my intent. I just needed to let folks know which engine I am running as everyone seems to be considering 50s. Don't want them to feel misguided that I was running a 50 in any of my videos. Besides, I'd never argue with Sewerdude or you Bubba. Might disagree sometimes, but never argue.:D:D:D:D

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I fly mine with a Moki 1.8, not pumped and it is an insane powerhouse! Being a gas flier, I really couldn't imagine flying this plane on gas, simply because it just floats around like a kite, it's pretty surreal to see just how slow this plane does fly. Now, I think even adding just one pound extra of weight will change that dramatically.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hey bubba, a read where you said adjustments were made to vineys plane to allow it to hover better. What was done? I am on my second cap and on this one I extended the ailerons 5 inches inwards to put the surface under the prop wash. I plan on putting a gas motor in my first cap and setting it up for IMAC. This new one will be more for 3d.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

KW,

that was my plane and all we did was add more throw in the radio. His was fine.

To get this plane ready for IMAC, you MUST go through a trimming checklist as just about everything needs some changes to get it to fly the way it should. Remember that you need to get the engine/prop combo correct before starting to trim as simply changing the prop to another brand can change you trim.

I just got back from my "lunchtime" flights and here is the final results from my trimming.

total trim flights was 27. These were 5 minute flights with someone taking notes on the more complicated things

I ended up with the CG roughly 1/4 forward from the recommended spot, 3 degrees of right thrust, two degree of up thrust, I think I sanded about 1/8th inch off the back of the sing saddle. I have 3 percent up elevator for left rudder, 5 percent up elevator for right rudder, no aileron mixes and no downline mixes. Lateral balance took one half ounce on the left wing. I have no elevator trim set in the radio and one click right aileron. I use a 10X and have the trim steps set to "one" instead of the normal "4"

Previously I had 10 percent elevator in both directions and 3 to 5 percent opposite aileron. With no thrust changes I could not hold a straight upline as the plane pulled hard left as soon as it slowed the slightest bit and pulled to the gear immediately. I also needed 3 percent down elevator for a perfectly straight downline.

Now I can pull an upline and with no wind let go of the sticks and she just keeps truckin' straight up. In KE I hold whatever rudder I need and she goes in a nice straight line. Inverted flight takes about 1/8th of the stick which is perfect for IMAC which translates when going up inverted on a 45 degree line under 80% power to the nose dropping to level in about 5 to 7 seconds.

My throws are roughly 1/2 inch on the elevator and 1.5 inches on the ailerons measured both at the root close to the fuselage. the rudder is 60% of full throw. All expo setting are at least 60%, that way I can "hide" line corrections with the rudder by moving the stick a tiny bit and the plane will not appear to move the nose

Moving the CG forward cleaned up all IMAC maneuvers and 3D did not suffer too bad. Snaps all but stopped over-rotating but it's still there so be ready for it

As you already know I'm using a DA50 on the J'tec Pitts muffler and a PT models 22x8 prop. The plane is trimmed for that combo and it works well. Lots of power when I want it and nice a quiet for decent IMAC sound scores as I do not need much over 1/2 power for most all of the basic sequence, except maybe 3/4 power when going on a 45 degree upline or a straight upline.

Now I have had this plane for somewhere around 500 flights and up until recently I thought I had it trimmed correctly, I then let an advanced IMAC pilot fly it and took his advice and OH my is it much better

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Is this in addition to the right thrust built into the firewall? 3 washers on the left side and 2 under the bottom right? What incidence did you end up with after sanding the wing saddle?

Thanks,
Kendall

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Kendall,

I'm at zero on the wing with the stab set at zero and yes, those are in addition to what's already there. I mentioned way back in another Cap232 thread that my firewall appeared to not be in correctly as it seems to have a bow to it which can be seen at the top so that will cause issues with getting thrust correct.

In most cases everyone I have seen needs 2 more right and one more up

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Bubba, I have put two washers under the bottom and it cured mine from going to the belly on uplines. The problem is i have put about 4 on the left side, the engine looks insanely crooked to the right, but it still heels left pretty good in an upline. I flew it this afternoon and noticed also in a harrier it wants to drop the left wing first every time. Is it possible that it is a lateral balance problem? When checking it do i use the centerline of the fuse or the centerline of the engine?

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hey all, didnt mean to ruffle any feathers:D I guess all in all the plane will fly great with either gas or glow. Although you have to admit, a lighter plane flys better:) I wanted to reply to this thread sooner after I saw all your guys post:D Thought I get the thread up and running again. But I've been busy as heck with my daughters graduation, work etc. I''m still enjoying the heck out of the 160 on the Cap when I get a chance. Shes breaking in nicely .
On another note, I'm still slowly getting my Aeroworks Yak 50cc QB done. I've probably set a record on the time it takes to build a QB from Aeroworks. Need to call it LB for "Long Build" for me:D Rough time of the year to be building for me it seems, its alomost done though. I'll keep you guys posted.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Jeff, Bet it doesn't take you as long as I took on my WH Edge!!! LOL Two months I believe, give or take a week!!! Glad to hear you're getting on well buddy! Keep up the reports on the YAK.
BTW I got a 30% SD Extra 260 over a week ago and it ain't out of the box yet so let's not start a competition here!!! LOL
AL

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Whoaaaaaaaaaa Al. I seem to recall you stating that you werent buying anymore planes this summer:D Maybe you should use Bubba's signature at the bottom of your posts:D Anyway, we must be thinking alike. My next plane might be a Extra 260 as well. I'm looking hard at the Diertich 260 .But I'll look alittle closer at the SD 260. Then again I like the new Sukhoi that Wildhare has.
But back to the Cap. I think I have to add some washers under the left side of the mount. When I try to pull up in a hover the plane wants to fall to the left, unless I give it a ton of rudder. How many are you guys using? I'm not having alot of trouble with knife edges, although I have to keep on the ele to keep it from tucking to the wheels.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I'm just the opposite. How about a H9 Extra 260 in 1 week(minus rudder servo). The cool custom graphics motivated me I guess[8D].

RE: GP Cap 232
 

The 260 looks good Balsa. Nice graphics. I just ordered some from Bad Brad for my yak, couldnt be happier

RE: GP Cap 232
 

How about $459.00 with free shipping from Chief Aircraft and that includes all of the hardware save the tailwheel. With a $400 3mm or DL 50 and $400.00 worth of electronics that's a really inexpensive 30%!!! BTW I love the SU-26 on Wild Hare too!!! There's a video of it 3Ding on Down-on-the-Deck.com. Really nice job!!! Tom should be proud. BTW SHould I have reservations about Bad Brad????? Did you say you COULD be happier or was that a spelling error????? Bubba says he does great.

PS Great looking Extra Rod!!!!

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hey sewer, Thanks for the kudos:). Sorry to hear you're not happy with Bad Brad but if it is an issue with the graphics themselves I'm sure he'll make it right. He even told me if I screwed up putting them on he'd replace whatever at only the cost of shipping. I've lettered my plumbing trucks so this wasn't my first rodeo but I appreciated the offer.

Gotta eat some crow so pass the salt:D. I used the BME 44 on the 260 so I've decided to put an O.S. BGX-1 3500 on the Cap. It flew the snot out of my W.M. Extra 300 but it's down for a major recovering job. Ran it into a hole on taxi back to the pitts and knocked the gear out of it so no better time than the present I guess[:'(]. The good thing is my wife has been helping me with the project. We're sort of ripping off the BVM 2.6m Edge fantasy scheme. It's slow going at best but a fun colaberation. I'm looking forward to getting the Cap in the air with the BGX. It's a soild engine that already has all the tweaking done. Hoping to maiden the 260 and the reworked Cap both next weekend. I ordered a virtual cockpit kit for the 260 and it should be here tomorrow and it's done when I glue on the canopy. The BGX is mounted on the Cap so I only have to plumb it and rerbalance and it's ready(work permitting, of course)[&:].

Check out the pics of my(and wife)first full cover job[8D].
Happy flyin' all,
Rod

RE: GP Cap 232
 

Hey Lou.
I guess we were posting at the same time and you beat me:D. Thanks for the kudos as well. Always great to hear from Ya.
Rod

RE: GP Cap 232
 

I actally had a similiar thing with Brad. He cut me a set of graphics for my Yak (It's on his web site) and he noticed I stuck one of them (The Yak logo just in front of the canopy should have went on the turtle deck) in the wrong place. He sent me a new set them called me to tell me he sent the new set. I think my jaw dropped to the floor.

I've been using him ever since. There was a period where he was hard to get a hold of but he's back in full swing doing graphics pretty much full time (he does have a day job) and usually gets them out in a day or two.

Here is the WH Edge he did for me. All graphics are in hologram though the camera does a poor job of showing it. He also did a set for this Cap but I do not have pics for it

RE: GP Cap 232
 

No No......I guess I need to proof read my posts better. I meant I COULDNT be happier with Brad's graphics! His stuff is top notch and super fast shipping.

RE: GP Cap 232
 

What balsafire?????.....Do you say your putting a glow on a giant size:D???? Sorry couldnt resist