thanks big bird. i have a friend with a zdz 120 inline tripple and also a supertigre converted to gas. they both need the starter to get em going, hot or cold. also, a mate had a zdz 40, another starting nightmare. and finally, a mate has a macminnarelli twin, he made a starter for that out of a bike starter motor cos that was a workout to get that going. maybe my zdz80 boxer will start like an OS 10. don't want to do myself an injury just to get flying. i just want to cover the bases.