I'm not sure about the Havoc - it seems like there just aren't that many out there. If you look around there are a few vids from Australia with Havocs..

I think they look cool, they must be fast as hell, but living in Germany I'd have some concerns about part availability. You're in the "home country" though ,so you shouldn't have problems.

Price-wise too they're not THAT cheap - the RTR comes with a dumb radio, so by the time you got it all together, it's basically the price of a Savage or MTA4 28.

Don't know what kind of experience you have, but for bashing fun and wheelies and reliability and toughness and jumps and so on, those two are probably the best way to go...

As for the HB Lightning GT, I'm also trying to find out more about it. Think it looks like an interesting possibility... But cuz of the single shocks and light-looking arms, I don't know how it would stand up to big jumps... There's one on auction here in Germany I'm keeping my eye on, but not knowing that much about them I don't know how high I'd be willing to go really....

If it's really down to those two, because - ESPECIALLY because - they're not THAT popular, it might be a good idea to start by seeing what your LHS has. Being more or less unproven, LHS support should probably be high on your list of factors to consider.. Would be, - um, well, IS - high on mine..

Here's a website with some cool (but short) video clips, including some with Havocs..:

http://www.driftfactory.de/randseite.html

Think if you go to the vids here on rcuniverse, maybe you can find some of those Aussie vids.


EDIT - Sorry, just saw you've had the other MT's...