I understand the viewpoints in the original post [#1]. There are those clubs largely made up of uptight, nail biting, "insidelooponly" type flyers around here, where crashing is considered a point of shame. They tend to drive the aggressive flyers away, sometimes for good reason. Until you have made the rounds and come across the independent flyers who have few rules except to just have fun and be sure to pick up all the pieces on your way out.....you will never be able to understand the view points in post #1.