Easy Guy's, these plane do fill a gap as an entry level plane that you don't have to care if they crash. Yes there are planes out there that make them look like a joke, but for someone just learning to loop and roll they will get them through the learning process without a major investment. They don't fly very well and their construction leaves a bit to be desired {OK maybe thats understated}, but as a first step up from a trainer they fill the bill. The problem is that most of us here are experienced pilots that would never settle for this product, but I crashed more than a few to get to where I am, and its better to crash a $125 junker than a $275 and up 3-D bird. At least the owners are getting air time and for a beginner, burning fuel is better than watching. And yes I have owned V-mar and no I will never buy another.