Hi Roy, some good ideas in there which I would probably use on mine. I was also wondering about mixing in the ailerons with the flaps to enable the whole trailing edge to droop for even shorter t/o and landing. Pat McCurry did warn me that drooping the flaps more than around 16deg for t/o would only add more drag. I would like like to try this as I have a very local flying site which so far I have been unable to fly my jets from because the runway is just a 100' mown grass circle.....so maybe ? Cheers, Rob.