Thanks MorganSS, I was going to get the bowties but tried a cheap bid on ebay for the panther chameleons, set of 4 brand new in the bag. I cant beleive I won them for $16.00. A set of 2 on towers is like almost $20.00. I will use these for starters. That big jump in the pic has the clay built up even with the side boards now, I think that was a pic of when they were changing the layout,all the triples and doubles are rounded at the top and not as steep. I ordered all the fluids Sunday that I stated above, so glad to see Im in the ball park with the tips you gave me. Thanks again.