Tony,
We all know about the over weight Shindens and Pass-Ports,
But I did the work and provided a list with the components for the Shinden that would make it under weight , this cost was no more than buying the wrong equipment ,
but the information was priceless. Experiance is the only way you can make that happen unfortunaltly you can`t purchase that ,you have to earn it like we did.
but most guys did nothing to fix the problem they just bought the next newest kit. ,,money is not the issue as I said before.

However, the Shinden was not made for Electric ,like I said it was for a low end price point.Four years ago when it was designed. Electric set ups were not Cheap for most in the AMA classes, nor were they light, However, these are not sport planes and the equipment selection still takes effort to get it right ,even though you can buy the latest and greatest don`t mean you can set it up properly.

Should we also provide an allowance or,out law IC in Pattern because the new guys are at a dissadvantage because they don`t know how to get a YS to run properly
or, outlaw any self designed airplane because of a percieved advantage in building skills? no, you go to the Pro`s and get the correct Help or information on how to get the job done.
Competition takes effort, not a relaxing of the rules for beginners or the inexperianced.
If this is a real problem they can use a Great planes "Go JO" and compete with that till they have the experiance and skill to move to the big rigs.
I guess they will still want to Buy the Nice stuff, Agian money ,no issue.
When compaired to the other difficulties to compete in pattern, this rule is small , experiance is what teaches you to make the weight limit.
Maybe we can reduce the downgrades in the lower classes so they won`t feel bad when they can`t earn a ten on a horizonal roll as well.

This remindes me of the old No retractable gear rule in Novice (Oh Wait that word is not Nice) that was also a stupid rule it made no difference but made people feel good about themselves,But ,Now look ,the pro`s don`t even use them.
This is the nature of the progression in our sport the target is always moving,and improving, Rules do this.

Any airplane can be made to be over weight like your pro built Pass-Port by buying stuff not intended for high level competition or not properly weighing the equipment.
I usually unload all my overweight Shindens to the masters guys too..LOL Just kidding!!
I`m sure the FAI guy you purchased it from was quite aware it was overweight but forgot to tell you or he used the Nats Scale to Weigh it LOL,
Tony,electric airplanes don`t gain weight!
So If any body choses to fly electric like you did, it is their resposibility to make sure your choice of parts ,Power,Batteries ,ECT. will do the job and be legal.
or buy a Battery opperated Dremel just in case LOL

the way I see it
If you move the weight limit up , there still will be those who will be over the limit. just like the speed limit.
This weight rule has been in place for long enough for any one to be aware of the standard, manf,designers and competitors ,and it is quite easy to acheive. even with a Shinden and Pass-port
If a New Pilot would ask for a little direction from a sponsored pro like you, me or Dave ,He could get all the info he would need to buy the proper parts and equipment to make a legal Aircraft,this is why we are sponsored. And the dollar differenceto do it is neglagible
in fact I would aurgue with the availability of information through sites like this and other places on the web ,no one has an excuse anymore not knowing the rules or being able to access the proper stuff to do so.

Good Information is the cheapest to get but the most valuable when you recieve it.
Maybe we can pass a rule that Says "to fly Pattern you must ask the pro`s how to make Weight"[sm=surprised.gif]

Sorry I don`t see it like you do , I do what I can to promote Pattern and give tirelessly to the effort and I know you have done through the years as well
But,I figure both of us are experianced enough to agree to dissagree on this one.


Nice debate maybe something will come out of it but I doubt it
Bryan