I'll give that a try, thanks!. I've been flying flight sims for most of my life (almost 38 now) and have flown real aircraft before as well. I also understand the principals of flight in some detail. What I lack is practical experience and time on the stick as well as a decent field. Most of my crashes have been because I didn't have enough room to manuver safely. Thanks for the link, I will check that out now.