Well, I absolutely wanted to try my hand at making spoked wheels but I don't have the gear to do silver soldering so I started thinking. First of all I notice that on real spoked wheels (for example on my bicycle) the spokes are not soldered to the hub or rim. They slip through holes in the hub and are held up by threads on the rim end.

Anyway, what I came up with was a combination of the techniques recently learned from other modelers here and on rcascalebuider. A special thanks to Reg and Donnie. The only serious tool needed was a cheap drill press for precisely drilling the 20 holes per side on the hub. The hub is made of two washers, and some bits of tubing that I found at the local hardware store. The bits were epoxied together to simplify construction but it's really the tension of 40 spokes that makes it rock solid.

The rim is aluminum bar stock. I marked the hole locations AFTER forming it into a ring. The ring is closed off with a metal "stitch" but again it's the laminated wood that really holds it together. I laminated the wood before putting in the spokes so they would have something to "bit into" and make bending over the ends easier. The key here is annealing just the ends of the spokes so that they can easily be bent over at the hub and at the rim. No need to solder at the hub because the spokes which are woven under each other pull down strongly and hold the other spokes in place. It really is rock solid believe me. I can't tell any different in strength from the Proctor wheels I used to have.

The rim consists of three elements: 1) the aluminum rim 2) a thin spruce (?) lamination and 3) thin bamboo rods to form the lip.

Now all it needs is some metalizer aluminum paint and a slightly thicker tire size. Too bad the wheels are covered on the Pfalz!

Very nice work! [8D] I like the fact that it doesn't require any exotic tools or materials... it's all household stuff. That means I could make one too

What's the weight of one of these wheels, and the diameter? And what are you using for tyres?

You have done well Don.. but why are you still scared of a little soldering ? You and Reg seem to spend more time making jigs than wheels .. perhaps thats why mine are a tad"squiggy" but my jigs are charcoal when finished If you want to try another excersise ..try drilling 10 holes each side of the hub and have the rear facing spoke and forward spacing spoke one length of wire in a V shape. Thats how I did the Jenny wheels. It will make your non soldered hub stronger and you wont have to "inter twine"the spokes over each other to hold them in place on the hub.... its also an interesting puzzle working out a sequence to fit them all in position .. either way ..look at the money you are saving making your own..correct diameter and width too

Donnie, I am making baby steps towards learning to silver solder! Partially it's a language problem: I can't read the labels on anything at the local hardware store so shopping for supplies is hard. I did buy a little gas torch but since I can't read the packaging or the instructions I can only guess as to what kind of gas it uses. I think it can reach tempeatures of 1,400 C. I think I may have found the silver solder rods (maybe) but haven't got a clue where I mind find a ceramic tile here in Shikoku. I might pick some stuff up in the US next month. I know that eventually I'll need to know how to do silver soldering.

Actually, though, I think the less solder used on the wheels the better. It just adds weight both because of the solder itself and the fact that you've got to be using brass instead of aluminum. As I mentioned above, I don't think actual spoked wheels use soldering or welding (well at least my bicycle tires don't). I thought about the 10-holed V-spoke approach but it didn't seem that much easier and is a little less authentic looking in terms of how the wires cross. Also the weaving of the spokes creates the slightly curved "volcano" shape I see in old photos.

Muxje, I don't have a scale so I don't know how much the wheel weighs but I'm guessing it's less than one of the plastic WB wheels -- at least with the foam tire described below. This prototype is 5" (12.5cm) in diameter including the tire. At present I'm using some 1/2" diameter black foam tubing for the tires. This stuff is hollow so I've filled it with a solid rubber tube. It's very light but I'm a bit worried about the durability. I also picked up some heater hose in the same diameter (the only diameter available locally) that is much more tire-looking but is also much heavier and harder to use. Actually, I'd like to find some tubing with a bit larger diameter for a more authentic look -- maybe something around 5/8" diameter. BTW, for spokes I used 0.8mm stainless fishing line leader (?) that I found in a fishing supplies store (no "music wire" available locally).

Oh! And thinking of language follies, I just had to pick up a can of spray paint at he local 100 yen shop ($1 dollar shop) which is labeled (flat?) "ass brown"! It took a while to figure out that what the kana was attempting to say was "earth brown."

Donnie, the jig was a snap to make thanks to Reg's photos of the jig he uses for his threaded wheels. Plus being adjustable I can use it again and again for different size rims. Actually, I'm realizing more and more that it's theses non-tool tools that seem to be the most vital. Making jigs seems to be an artform in its own right!

And you're right about the cost. Now maybe I can actually afford to build the model the wheels will be attached to!

Details I didn't include on this prototype but would like to add in the future: 1) small sleeve tubes towards the rim end of the spokes (I might replicate these with styrene) and 2) a threaded air valve. I'm thinking of using a small bolt -- or maybe just a bit of brass tubing with some scratches to simulate threads.

On any finished wheels I'd also like to have some "permanent" mud. Any suggestions for making mud?

Here's a step-by-step description:

1. Print out the hub template sized to the washer you're using and CA it to the washer then CA the washer to be piece of wood.

2. Drill the 40 holes (20 each washer) required. Plan on breaking at least one drill bit! I bought a supply of cheap 1mm hand drills ($1 apiece) and tore the bits out to use in my drill press.

3. Make the hubs out of whatever materials you have at hand. I used one steel tube (from the local hardware store) sleeved into a slightly shorter one to create a "seat" for the hub ends. Epoxy together to temporarily hold everything together. If you're more skilled than I am you could solder these.

4. Cut out a disk of plywood the inside diameter of the rim. I used the drill press to get it nice and round. Bend the aluminum rim to fit. I used a twist of wire to hold it together (see photos).

5. Mark the hole positions. For 40 spokes you'll need to start with a pentagram (see diagram attached) -- I used photoshop to rotate the holes in the hub diagram above 18 degrees. For the British 64 spoke set-up you can just divide and sub-divide! I used my Dremel tool to make the holes in the rim.

6. Soak some 5/8" x 1/16" strips of spruce (or some such wood) in water and slowly bend to shape around a suitably sized container. Let the wood dry out like this. Then epoxy it around the aluminum rim with the ply plug still inside to make sure it stays round. Clamp with one of those cheap adjustable hose clamps. Let cure then clean up with sandpaper. I sanded down the edges of the wood until is was about 1/16" wider than the aluminum rim on either side.

7. Redrill the holes in the rim (which have now gotten plugged with epoxy). You can do this by hand.

8. Using the jib shown add the spokes. For the 40 spoke wheels you start with 10 spokes in a spiral pattern attaching to every other hole in the rim and hub. The spokes form a tangent to the hub. To do the spokes I cut a length of music wire, made a 1/8" L-bend on one end, inserted the other end through the rim and then bent over the ends to lock it in place. It's important not to allow the rim to rotate as you're doing this (the jig holds it snuggly in place). The key to making this approach work is you HAVE to soften (anneal) the ends of the spoke wires or you'll never be able to make the required bends on such little pieces. the first set of spokes will be have the L-bend inserted UP through the hub -- i.e. the spoke attaches from the bottom. If you try to put all 20 spokes on the top you'll have problems. Anyway, after you have the first set of 10 spokes in place, you then put in the remaining 10 spokes in the other direction. Adjacent wires are at about 110 degrees to each other. These spokes with go over (nearest the hub) and under (about halfway out) the other set of spokes. This weaving is what provides the pressure to hold the second set of 10 spokes into the hub. You won't have to bend the ends of the L-bend over (which would be pretty much much impossible).

9. When you're done with one side, just flip the rim over and do the same on the other side. Now that I'm figured this out I think I could do both sides in about 1 hour.

10. Once the rim is finished using a file (or some such tool) press the ends of the spokes firmly into the soft wood. For added strength I suppose to could apply a thin layer of epoxy. I didn't and they spokes seem plenty firm.

11. Using CA, add the lips to the rim. I used 2mm bamboo.

12. Sand the lip and wooden rim smooth.

13. Putty and resand

14. Paint

15. Put on model and impress the hell out of your friends with either their scale realism or your complete obsessiveness!


Now that I've figure this out, I'm sure I could make a pair of these spoked wheels in about a week or leisurely work. Donnie, might be able to do them in a single evening!

Don..I can see your problem now ... cant read a thing ..except the numbers are the same . I suppose thats why I have to ask for Number 65 when I want fried rice from the carryout shop ? Its taken me 6 hours for one and a half wheels so far .. but you can see why I dont waste time on the jig. You would do yours quicker if you cut the 40 spokes at one time ..instead of individually .. they should be the same length Pic shows mine with 10 holes and V shaped spokes. The sequence is spoke 1 in rim hole 1(gotta watch how I saw that) and other end in hole 7... spoke 2 in rim hole 3 and other end in 9 and so on till all holes are filled. Four of the hours were spent working out the sequence two for making them. Sorry for going off topic... I use solder Tyre will be made from 5/8" brake hose for HGV's its hollow so not as heavy as O rings

Donnie those are looking very nice! Now that I have the process down I'm sure I could steamline the task in many ways. For example, as you say, I could cut all the spokes and even anneal them in batches instead of hand fitting each and every one. Heck, I could even made stocks of these for the future! Also I'd be able to make both wheels at the same time or at least in sync so that I could be doing the next step on one wheel while waiting for the other one to set-up. And of course there wouldn't be any of the mential anguish next time around. I can't tell you how many failed experiments and dead ends went into this!

I'm thinking I'll made good little stock on the hubs while I'm here and have these materials at hand. This hub size would work well for any size from around 4 1/2" to 7"

BTW, another advantage of this method for making the lip of the rim is that I don't have to groove the rim with a dremel tool. The bamboo rim is actually quite scale looking (I did a little research on rim cross-sections). I wasn't happy with the look of the carved wooden rim I made at first. It was also a bit deeper than I wanted it to be.

Here are some of the diagrams I knocked out in Photoshop that helped my get my head around this project:

Dang! I just noticed that I've "rolled over" my 1000 post on RCU! I was planning of making that one something special! Oh well, guess I have to shoot for that 2000th!

BTW, I've got to have one of the lowest models-build-and-flown to messages posted ratio around! It's kind of an embarrassment.

When my wheels (right) look as good (or better!) than these wheels by Proctor (left) THEN I'll be satisfied!

There's something still not quite right about the spoke pattern that I can't put my finger on. I think it may have to do with the relationship of the two sides to each other. My two sides seem to be more in sync with each other than is just right. Guess I'll just have to make the other one to find out what the problem is!

Thought I better show you the result of last nights work too Don .. I put it in a scale setting ..ie on the model its for . Ive yet to add the rims to hold the tyre in place but you get the idea. An advantage of 10 hole rims is the rim can be far smaller and more scale size. At 1/6 scale its hard to see the spoke is continious. Ill show you the other side once its tidied up a bit and a scale wheel retainer rather than a collet .. yours looks neater than mine but I think your spoke spacing was a hole out

I think your right on the spacing. Each side by itself looks fine but there's something wrong with the coordination of the two side. It's like some Chinese puzzle! I may just do the other one up the same and then use them as is on the Pfalz since the only part that will be visible on the Plalz will be a couple of spokes through an inspection hole.

Or I may find myself with oodles and oodles of time here in Japan so I'll do a second pair of hubs using your 10 hole method.

One question I still have though is whether the holes on the two hub sides should line up -- or should they be offset by 1/2 hole?

I based mine on a Jenny wheel pic and it came out similar pattern to Proctor wheel you posted. Think one side only for now. On a 10 hole hub the spoke comes from hole 1 on the rim on the inside of the hub... leaves the outside of the hub .. and goes into hole 8 of the rim (Count rim holes as for one side only ie 20 holes). Ensure the spoke at the hub is HALF way between hole 1 and 8 on the rim. Now when you do the other side the pattern is the same ie Hub hole is HALF way between hole 1 and 8 on the other side. Therefore ..because the spokes are staggered on either side of the wheel ... yes.. the holes on either hub are staggered. Does that make sense ?

Donnie, yeah, that makes sense. I tried to stagger the holes on my 20 hole hub but that's not a lot of stagger on a 1/2" hub! I think the real problem was that I started with the wrong hole on the other side. I'm definitely going to take your 10-hole approach on the next set and maybe even use a slightly smaller washer for the hub -- although the 1/2" hub on a 5" size wheels looks pretty good.

It looks like the spokes on your wheel also ended up woven over and under each other.

Well, I'm almost finished with the other wheel. It only took a (full) day once I had all the supplies, jig, and experience. I also thought I'd post a picture showing how the idea for the hub evolved from my first 20-hole hub made of a coin (too big), to the smaller 20-hole hubs made of a washer that I used on this set of wheels, to the "next generation" 10-hole hub (made of a smaller still washer) I'll use the next time round. I'm also posting the "spoke map" I used (on the second wheel) -- thanks Donnie for helping to clear things up a bit. In short, on the rib the ends of V-shaped spoke would have 6 holes (same side) between them. When you move to the next hub hole (for the next V-shaped double spoke) you skip one hole in the rim. It seems weird but eventually all the holes get filled in.

BTW, Donnie what type of glue did you use to bond the ends of the tire together?

The problem, by the way, with the spoke pattern on the first tire was that the second side wasn't properly "in sync" with the first side. This takes some careful thought. You can't just flip it over and start laying spokes. Basically, to get the right look the pattern of spokes is just one hole off of the front side -- rotated 9 degrees. I may decide to "restring" the second side of the first tire. This is fairly easy to do since it's not soldered in place. I'd just have to cut the spokes. On the other hand, probably no one else would really every notice.

All this having been said, these spoked wheels really are easy to make once you get it all clear in your head! The diagrams I've included above should help anyone that wants to give it a try.

Think of the joy of building a model in the scale YOU want -- and not have it dictated by what's commercially available (or not available as the case may be).

You have it cracked now Don ... whats next .. the tailskid ? You could make all the detail bits in Japan and assemble it when your tour is over I just used Cyano for the tyre join ..the brake tube is hollow 8mm so I reinforced the join with a small piece of brass tube ..internally. Attached are my finished wheels ... I didnt know about the other side going out of sync .. guess I was lucky ..but I can see it could now you mention it

Yeah, Donnie, that's my plan -- to basically build myself a "kit" while I'm here. I can do all the details and even made all the (scale accurate) ribs and fuse formers. I'm looking to make my move back to the US within a year but who knows.

I used to CA to join the rubber foam tire I'm using at the moment but since this is pretty soft stuff the CA forms a hard ridge. It worked fine on the heater hose tire though.

Beautiful work guys!

The final result -- almost. I'm still looking for a bit fatter tubing for the tire and I still need to "muddy them up" a bit. The next pair will be better in lots of small ways. For example, on the next pair I'll use the smaller 10-hole hub, really go all out on getting the wooden parts of the hub to look identical to the metal parts (I was sort of lazy on the prime and sand cycles), and include small collars as the end of each spoke. I may also decide to repaint the rims in Metalizer steel instead of the flat aluminum I've used here (because that's what I had available). Oh, and one more thing, on this set of wheels the hubs extend equally to both sides (since that was easiest to do). On the next set I'll change the height setting on the jib before doing the spokes on the second side so that the "inside" side is less conical that the "outside" side.

--Don

Total tally of costs:

Direct materials costs:

1. 10mm x 2mm aluminum bar stock for rim (enough for two wheels) = $1.10
2. Stainless steel wire for spokes = $2.60
3. 4 stainless washers and tubes for hubs = $1
5. 15mm x 2mm spruce for rims = 60 cents
6. Rubber hose for tires (including hard rubber inside) = $4.50
7. Pack of small bolts and nuts for valve (enough for many wheels) = $4
8. Putty and paint = $3 (maybe)
9. Plywood former for wheels = 20 cents ?
10. Thin bamboo for rim lips = 30 cents

That's a total materials cost of $17.30 per set of spoked wheels. I'm sure Donnie could have found this stuff at half these prices!

Indirect costs:

1. Materials for jig = $5 (can be used again and again)
2. epoxy and CA = $0 (plenty left over)
3. Sandpaper = $2 (plenty left over)
4. A "bunch" of 1mm drill bits broken in the process of drilling the hubs = $8 (maybe I need to count this as a direct cost )
5. Mental anguish = priceless

All in all, no matter how you figure it, it comes out to less than the cost of a pair of WB plastic wheels -- and something like 1/6th the cost of one of the Arizona models spoked wheel kits (in the 5" size). It took me a while to figure things out (and I needed a lot of help from my fellow modelers) but now I figure it will take about three days to make a pair of fantastic looking spoked wheels and may in the long run save me a ton of money.