I was curious about the size of rudder in relation to thrust line especially when modifying. I was told to keep the area the same proportion above and below when making the rudder larger. The plane in question is a 4*60 so I don't think it would matter too much, but I'm sure it would on some planes.

What really happens of you make a large rudder angled so below the thrust line is increase a lot more than above the thrust line.

rcpilot-ajaxrc,

There are at least two things that can happen if the fin/rudder are too 'lopsided' with respect to the thrust line. One is that the swirling prop wash can give you some unwanted yaw at low speeds, probably most noticeable during takeoff. The other is that it could be hard to fly knife-edge, although it is not necessarily the symmetry wrt. to the thrust line that affects knife-edge.

banktoturn

You'd have a unique Tail section. (lopsided???) If I'm understanding you want to have a fat Rudder. Looking from the side and slightly exagerating you want to extend it 3 inches from the bottom and only a 1/4 inch at the top. Kind of like looking at the profile of a fat man thats been buried up to his waste. Makes sense to me, you'd gain a bit of Rudder authourity as well. Especially if you're a Master Airscrew user

Hi Scott,

I see you're reseaching my suggestion in other venues, good for you.

If you recall Jim M (the other one)'s original design 'hovering cobra', you've see an implementation of what I'm suggesting.

The thing is, traditional 'lopsided' (I like that description ) design results in several undesireable side effects including yaw/roll coupling plus the others already mentioned.

Ya man the cobra is an awesome flying plane and here is a pic of Ynot's cobra. As you can see the rudder!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/attachment...&postid=520537
You really cant see the full rudder but its there!!
Later,
Kyle
And hey if you want one i can get you the plans for one but they dont make these things anymore!!
Later,
Kyle

Here is a photo of a model I have made. It is a 1918 Hanza-Brandenburg W-29. As you see the rudder is strange. I have not flown this yet but it taxies great on the snow. The rudder has lots of travel and lots of authority on the snow and on the pavement too. The rudder is right in the propwash. There is no water rudder on this nor the full size.

Jim
Finn: nice looking model but did the German's copy the Americans or the other way around? 1946 Boeing scout plane below.

The w-29 is from 1918 so I doubt they copied a 1940's plane.

Yep, know the difference between 1918 and 1946 but maybe the German designers were forward looking in 1918? Or was it really the Austrians who designed your airplane? I am back to 1911 (see attachment)in my RC flying projects and working on 1903.

Very impressive! Those early planes are neat. I have seen a lot of them done in electric. Yours looks great

Another possible effect of increasing the proportion of ruddeer are which is below the tailplane is that it can introduce a nose-down effect when the rudder is applied. The rudder deflection can create a relatively high pressure area beneath the tail. The prototype Haker Hurricane exhibited this characteristic, as did the Miles Magister. Obviously it depends on where the tail and fin/rudder are in relation to one another.
Mike

My speed 400 version of the glo 1911 model above!

Flicka5 How did you cover and finish that wonderful model?

It is mainly covered with paper Silkspan, water shrunk and then brushed with clear nitrate dope. The dope was real old and the tin can container had rusted internally to give the nitrate a brown, rusty color. The wood grain nose is contact paper stuck to balsa sheeting. The three cylinder dummy motor is cardboard tubes or cylinders toped off with balsa heads. It is painted with model dope colors.

That is the way I finish most of my planes too. I sometimes paint the silkspan and other times I dye it.
I have found that you can print any design or lettering right onto the dyed silkspan but the colors of the ink run. Not the black though. I just tape the silkspan to a sheet of printer paper and run it through the printer. I have been told that dying silkspan with tea gives it the proper muslin look. I usually use rit dyes. Navy blue works well. I bet ,just staining the raw balsa and then doping it would look very natural too.

Have read about using tea to stain the covering but haven't tried. Considering all the permanent ice tea stains I have put on my clothes over the years, it should work great! Also, have read about using diluted varnish stain on bigger models to color and "antique" the usually white covering.
Now covering an electric DARE Wright Flyer using Coverlite in a "buff" color which gives it an "antique-ish" look

I did this to a semi-scale low wing monoplane (De-Haviland)...

and yes, there was quite a nose down pitch when you waggled that rudder.
As mentioned, the increased air pressure under the elevator would have this effect.... so what if I extended the fin rearwards of the elevator?

...Check if it will still fit in the boot !!

From the various tail surfaces the Magister had it looks as though it was a bit 'suck it and see' even in full-size. The only change (or the only visible change) to teh Hurricane was to increase the fin (not rudder) area below the tail by means of the sub-fin you will see on service Hurris whch was not present on the prototypes. Don't know for sure if this was all they did.

Mike