Mini-Telemaster flight
#1
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From: Kyle, TX
I built a 3 channel Mini-Telemaster using an outrunner motor. The power is fine, but it pulls to the left. When I trim the rudder to get it to fly straight I have to give it so much right rudder that I cannot fly the plane to the right. I have adjusted the motor, pointing it more to the right as well as added weight (taped pennies) to the right wing tip. I checked for wing warp, but the two halves of the wing are exactly the same. When I add power I have right turn control, but with reduced power (i.e., landing) my right is almost nonexistent. I also checked the elevator, and it is square and even on both the left and right side. I really like the plane, but need some help figuring out how to trim out the plane and get right turn control. HELP!
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From: Wolf Point,
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That's odd. When first built mine, it turned right just fine, but would barely turn left, if at all. Long story short, it was never flyable as a 3ch plane; only after I installed ailerons did I have any chance of success at all. See my blog entries for the whole story on that.
Because of the initial disasters with the rudder, I turn it primarily with ailerons now. I have since, however, tested the rudder by wagging the tail while flying overhead, and it seems to work just fine in both directions now. I'm not sure exactly what helped out of the changes I made:
1) I installed some Sullivan flexible pushrods recently instead of the 4-40 wire pushrods I originally had in there
2) My new wing with ailerons has no dihedral
OR
3) The HS-55's are much more reliable than the GWS Naro servos I started with.
Because of the initial disasters with the rudder, I turn it primarily with ailerons now. I have since, however, tested the rudder by wagging the tail while flying overhead, and it seems to work just fine in both directions now. I'm not sure exactly what helped out of the changes I made:
1) I installed some Sullivan flexible pushrods recently instead of the 4-40 wire pushrods I originally had in there
2) My new wing with ailerons has no dihedral
OR
3) The HS-55's are much more reliable than the GWS Naro servos I started with.
#4
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I have built and flown three of these. All flew very well if not excellently. You almost certainly have some miss alignment somewhere or warps or a twisted (bannana shapped) fuselage. Built per plan and built true, it is an excellent flyer.
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From: Bryant Pond,
ME
Have you checked the fin [the part that the rudder is hitched to] for alignment? How about the alignment of the main wing? Like in one wing tip is leading the other. It seems to me that if every thing is lined up right,it should fly right,but on the other hand,some designs just have problems. I have a shoulder wing model[don't know the make] that I could never get it to fly good. Maybe I should get it out and try again.
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From: Kyle, TX
I have checked the fin, and it is aligned properly. The wing is correct also. I even tried to arrange the wing so more was to one side, and one tip lead further out, and it did not make a difference. I know others who have had this model and say it flies great, so I am really at a loss. Thanks for your advice, however.
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From: Bryant Pond,
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Well ,the only other problem you might have ,that I can think of is some problem in the pushrods having some flex somewhere. I would be interested in just what is the cause of your problem with this model when and if you get it flying right.
#8
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ORIGINAL: MLee
I built a 3 channel Mini-Telemaster using an outrunner motor. The power is fine, but it pulls to the left. When I trim the rudder to get it to fly straight I have to give it so much right rudder that I cannot fly the plane to the right. I have adjusted the motor, pointing it more to the right as well as added weight (taped pennies) to the right wing tip. I checked for wing warp, but the two halves of the wing are exactly the same. When I add power I have right turn control, but with reduced power (i.e., landing) my right is almost nonexistent. I also checked the elevator, and it is square and even on both the left and right side. I really like the plane, but need some help figuring out how to trim out the plane and get right turn control. HELP!
I built a 3 channel Mini-Telemaster using an outrunner motor. The power is fine, but it pulls to the left. When I trim the rudder to get it to fly straight I have to give it so much right rudder that I cannot fly the plane to the right. I have adjusted the motor, pointing it more to the right as well as added weight (taped pennies) to the right wing tip. I checked for wing warp, but the two halves of the wing are exactly the same. When I add power I have right turn control, but with reduced power (i.e., landing) my right is almost nonexistent. I also checked the elevator, and it is square and even on both the left and right side. I really like the plane, but need some help figuring out how to trim out the plane and get right turn control. HELP!
That Mini ought to be fairly good at gliding. Most are. And it ought to test glide straight and true if the airframe and balance is straight and true. Have you tried to test glide it? Take all the normal precautions. Calm day, somebody who has handlaunched before to toss it for you while you hold the TX, etc. One thing you want to find out is if the airplane flies straight in a glide, and if it flies straight under constant power.
You know that the Mini-Telemaster has an excellent reputation. And you've run through a list that should cover everything that would cause the behavior yours has shown. And everything looks good to you. What can be assumed from that? One is that we're all overlooking another cause. Another is that you're not seeing something that is wrong. If you could take a couple of digital pictures and post them, maybe an experienced eye will spot the problem. Or better yet, haul the little sucker out to a club field and ask one of the experienced guys there to take a look.
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From: Kyle, TX
Thanks for all your ideas and questions. Let me try to address some of them.
I know the Telemaster has a great reputation, and that is what throws me. As I look at the plane it appears square and balanced in every respect. The fuselage is not twisted, and the fin is straight. As I indicated, when the rudder is lined up with the fin, it pulls to the left instead of flying straight. Regarding power, the plane flies left more when is it gliding (when the power is reduced and much worse when cut off), but not quite as much as when it is under power. When I trim with a lot of right rudder I can get it to glide straight, but have no ability to make it turn right while gliding. (This is the same with and without pennies at the wing tip.) If I add power, I can then gain some control to turn right. As you can imagine, this makes for some challenging landings.
I do plan to take it to a flying field and get the opinion from some other more experienced fliers. Hopefully they can see something that I cannot. Also, I was thinking if I warped the right wing, that might help. Right now both wings are flat on the table when I hold down the respective sides. If I wanted to warp the right wing to see if I could get the plane to pull to the right more, should I pull the leading edge up (with the trailing edge down), or should I push the leading edge down (with the trailing edge up). It is just an idea, but would like your opinion.
Appreciate your help.
I know the Telemaster has a great reputation, and that is what throws me. As I look at the plane it appears square and balanced in every respect. The fuselage is not twisted, and the fin is straight. As I indicated, when the rudder is lined up with the fin, it pulls to the left instead of flying straight. Regarding power, the plane flies left more when is it gliding (when the power is reduced and much worse when cut off), but not quite as much as when it is under power. When I trim with a lot of right rudder I can get it to glide straight, but have no ability to make it turn right while gliding. (This is the same with and without pennies at the wing tip.) If I add power, I can then gain some control to turn right. As you can imagine, this makes for some challenging landings.
I do plan to take it to a flying field and get the opinion from some other more experienced fliers. Hopefully they can see something that I cannot. Also, I was thinking if I warped the right wing, that might help. Right now both wings are flat on the table when I hold down the respective sides. If I wanted to warp the right wing to see if I could get the plane to pull to the right more, should I pull the leading edge up (with the trailing edge down), or should I push the leading edge down (with the trailing edge up). It is just an idea, but would like your opinion.
Appreciate your help.
#10
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A straight airplane doesn't glide to one side or the other. No matter what it looks like to you, the airplane isn't straight if it doesn't glide straight. You're not seeing something.
You've mentioned the pennies on the wing tip. Usually, mass balance isn't done to cure out of trim problems. It's done to correct an imbalance. You correct the imbalance before flying because airplanes are built with balanced areas side to side and are expected to operate through a varied range of speeds. Mass loading affects vary with speed, so it's worthwhile to have side to side balance. Otherwise, you have trim problems at any speed other than the one the imbalance matches, if it does match any speed that is.
The right way to do balance is to balance your airplane and then go fly it. BTW, was it unbalanced when you set it up?
And if you could take a digital picture directly from the rear, that would help. I've seen "perfect wings" that had no warps but had been glued together a degree or so off line. The builder didn't notice the forest for the trees. And a digital picture straight down would be useful too. A rudder/elevator airplane's dihedral is usually quite effective. If the wing isn't square to the centerline of the airplane, that can definitely cause screwed up turn behavior. And it'd work differently at different speeds.
Warping a wing to fix an unknown problem isn't a good idea. Right now, the reason for the problem is unknown. Heck, warping to fix a known problem isn't usually a good idea.
Was this plane from a kit? or is it an ARF?
You've mentioned the pennies on the wing tip. Usually, mass balance isn't done to cure out of trim problems. It's done to correct an imbalance. You correct the imbalance before flying because airplanes are built with balanced areas side to side and are expected to operate through a varied range of speeds. Mass loading affects vary with speed, so it's worthwhile to have side to side balance. Otherwise, you have trim problems at any speed other than the one the imbalance matches, if it does match any speed that is.
The right way to do balance is to balance your airplane and then go fly it. BTW, was it unbalanced when you set it up?
And if you could take a digital picture directly from the rear, that would help. I've seen "perfect wings" that had no warps but had been glued together a degree or so off line. The builder didn't notice the forest for the trees. And a digital picture straight down would be useful too. A rudder/elevator airplane's dihedral is usually quite effective. If the wing isn't square to the centerline of the airplane, that can definitely cause screwed up turn behavior. And it'd work differently at different speeds.
Warping a wing to fix an unknown problem isn't a good idea. Right now, the reason for the problem is unknown. Heck, warping to fix a known problem isn't usually a good idea.
Was this plane from a kit? or is it an ARF?
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From: Kyle, TX
I built the plane, so I guess I have some minor off angle problems I am not seeing. I'll try to get a picture for you to see.
As for the pennies on the wing, the wing was balanced beforehand, so the pennies haven't made a difference. Will take them off.
Could you give me an opinion on another issue? Recently I tanked a plane in a lake. The battery, ESC, receiver, and motor were submerged for several minutes. Do you think any of this is salvageable? Is the battery safe to use, even if it will take a charge? I haven't put another battery on to see if the receiver/ESC work. Once the electronics get wet, are they pretty much toast?
Thanks for you help.
As for the pennies on the wing, the wing was balanced beforehand, so the pennies haven't made a difference. Will take them off.
Could you give me an opinion on another issue? Recently I tanked a plane in a lake. The battery, ESC, receiver, and motor were submerged for several minutes. Do you think any of this is salvageable? Is the battery safe to use, even if it will take a charge? I haven't put another battery on to see if the receiver/ESC work. Once the electronics get wet, are they pretty much toast?
Thanks for you help.
#12
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ORIGINAL: MLee
Could you give me an opinion on another issue? Recently I tanked a plane in a lake. The battery, ESC, receiver, and motor were submerged for several minutes. Do you think any of this is salvageable? Is the battery safe to use, even if it will take a charge? I haven't put another battery on to see if the receiver/ESC work. Once the electronics get wet, are they pretty much toast?
Thanks for you help.
Could you give me an opinion on another issue? Recently I tanked a plane in a lake. The battery, ESC, receiver, and motor were submerged for several minutes. Do you think any of this is salvageable? Is the battery safe to use, even if it will take a charge? I haven't put another battery on to see if the receiver/ESC work. Once the electronics get wet, are they pretty much toast?
Thanks for you help.
Water damage to electronics is usually instantaneous. If the electronics can be dried thoroughly and soon and tested thoroughly, it can be used, but not entirely trusted. You need to be able to visually inspect it to insure that no dampness remains. If you can't see everything, then using it is a gamble even if it tests completely. Plugs can hold water etc. It's best to be able to see everything inside and to still dry every bit of it with heated forced air. And then test the heck out of it.
The way our batteries are packaged, I wouldn't trust it even if it cycles perfectly. We can't get into them without cutting them apart. Do that and insure the cells are completely dry, and it might be worth using for a park foamie.
You might be able to open up the RX. If you can, and can insure it's completely dry, and it tests ok, that's the one part I'd maybe trust later. You can often dunk electronics in alcohol (don't use rubbing alcohol as it has a significant amount of water in it already) to displace water. And then blow dry the sucker. And then test it.
Did the motor come through it, or was it an electric motor?
#14
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If you rinsed out the motor with fresh water and dried it out it is most possibly still okay. In fact, many brushed motors are broken in by running them immersed in water to break in the brushes. Just blow dry and put a very small amount of oil (very very small amount) on the bearing. The electronics is more doubtful. Most times immersing them in denatured alcohol (you can get it at a paint store or hardware store) and thoroughly saturating them to displace all water then drying them by gently warming or blow drying will restore them. Do not use alcohol from a drug store or medicinal alcohol though as it may contain 40% water or more when you buy it. After that, check all connections very closely for corrosion, usually a greenish colored coating that may occur quickly or sneak up on you a week or two later so check repeatedly.
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From: Kyle, TX
The motor checks out and runs fine. The receiver was tightly wrapped in foam and tape, so I don't think it got much water. It works, and I cannot detect any moisture. One servo works, but the other does not. I am thinking of using the electronics in a low cost plane to which "I am not attached." Will try to make sure the connections are clean and not corroded. Guess this will just be another opportunity for learning.
Thanks for your advice.
Thanks for your advice.



