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3D flying

Old 09-20-2010, 05:47 PM
  #26  
K-Bob
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: tinner1

Is that aproximately the same ratio of folks that show up for work days?
Here's the funny part....a lot of young guys do show up on work days, BUT, that same group of older guys show up too. They as retired and usually have the time to devote exclusively to their favorite pastime. Note that I didn't say they worked a whole lot, just that they showed up. It's sad but true that since they devote a lot of time to our club, they do tend to think they should have more say. I can't say that I disagree with that but as I said before "Work the system". That's why I go to ALL club functions and meetings. I make flying and modeling ONE of my priorities, and if you want to control/have a say in things you have to be there.
A past president of our club was as you described. He loved to schedule work during the time the not-yet-retired guys would be at work so you either burned vacation or didn't show. Then he'd rip you for not showing. We (our club) did as you said. We, the younger moreprogressive ones,showed up at meetings and eventually voted him out. More improvements and workhas gotten done in the last 3 years then in the preceding 15 years and harmony abounds.

Work the system. Yes, indeed.
Old 09-20-2010, 05:50 PM
  #27  
dbcisco
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Default RE: 3D flying

They don't know what it is or how to describe it but want to ban it?

With poeple like that I doubt anything short of divine intervention or medication will help.
Old 09-20-2010, 06:12 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: 3D flying

I think the Pro Bros should put out a PDF stating
Harriers, Loops, and Left(or right) Turns are all 3D maneuvers
just to watch the Anti-3D crowds heads explode
Old 09-20-2010, 06:28 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

We have some old far%'s that don't like the noise, so they want to ban it. It's funny because most of them don't even fly, they come to the field just to talk, but they pay there dues so i guess they can do that. If someone wants to take off or land then the 3D fliers clear the flightline in a timley manner so thats not the problem.
It seems the noise of 3d flying is their complaint, the constant pumping of the throttle as you hover and fly harrier rolls irritate those old ears. Before you fly, tell them to turn down their hearing aids and/or have a box of ear plugs to pass out,problem solved.
Old 09-20-2010, 07:12 PM
  #30  
rcplanenut
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: HIGHSTRUT


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

We have some old far%'s that don't like the noise, so they want to ban it. It's funny because most of them don't even fly, they come to the field just to talk, but they pay there dues so i guess they can do that. If someone wants to take off or land then the 3D fliers clear the flightline in a timley manner so thats not the problem.
It seems the noise of 3d flying is their complaint, the constant pumping of the throttle as you hover and fly harrier rolls irritate those old ears. Before you fly, tell them to turn down their hearing aids and/or have a box of ear plugs to pass out,problem solved.
I like that suggestion, but it will probabily pi$$ um off even more
Old 09-20-2010, 07:13 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: HIGHSTRUT


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

We have some old far%'s that don't like the noise, so they want to ban it. It's funny because most of them don't even fly, they come to the field just to talk, but they pay there dues so i guess they can do that. If someone wants to take off or land then the 3D fliers clear the flightline in a timley manner so thats not the problem.
It seems the noise of 3d flying is their complaint, the constant pumping of the throttle as you hover and fly harrier rolls irritate those old ears. Before you fly, tell them to turn down their hearing aids and/or have a box of ear plugs to pass out,problem solved.
That's easy, ban harrier rolls and hovering (and any other noisy manouvers) for IC powered aircraft.
Old 09-20-2010, 07:32 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: 3D flying

I say ban whining, nothing hurts my ears more than a bunch of whiners.
Old 09-20-2010, 07:33 PM
  #33  
804
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


ORIGINAL: 804


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

If you look at my first post you will see that I have stated my problem. Someone in our club has proposed a rule change to ban/limit 3D flying. This has been tried before in the past at our club. Since there was no definition for 3D it would be difficult to enforce this rule because there would be many different inturpratations of what 3D is( so which one's are right and which one's are wrong). I am trying to get this rule change voted down, just as I did in the past.
My definition of 3D is ''keeping the plane in the air when it is going too slow to keep it in the air''
Really, the standard definition I've always heard and used is flying on a stalled wing.
The most common 3D moves are hover, harrier, rolling harrier, and some spins, and combinations of
all of the above.

If the members are so nit-picky they can't decide what is 3D and what is not,
you guys have more problems than just this.
Good luck.
Dang, 804, you're right and succinct in your definition AFAIK, but............

OP doesn't want a club anti-3D rule. As I understand it what's keeping the club OFs from banning 3D is they don't know how to define it. Ergo, I propose your definition of 3D should be replaced with ''flying around in circles.''



Good one.
Maybe we should just ban "ban".
Old 09-20-2010, 08:07 PM
  #34  
K-Bob
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Default RE: 3D flying

Looks like the side are drawn and verbal swords are beginning to fly so I just gonna say that it all comes down to manners and consideration from both "sides".

Exit, stage right.
Old 09-20-2010, 08:17 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: 3D flying

If I'm not mistaken the OP was referring to his club limiting /banning 3-D flying to avoid the potential for 3 or 4 knuckleheads from from showing up with a trailor load of planes and spending the entire day monopolizing the entire field doing nothing more than hovering over center runway when there are guys such as himself that do fly 3-d that are courteous and respectful of others fair right to use that airspace, thats what I read between the lines anyway.
I have absolutely nothing against 3-d flying I think it's cool to watch and the guys that can and want do it are talented as hell but when it monopolizes the entire airspace so that nobody else can use it then it's just plain discourteous to everybody else that holds a membership card.
The 3 or 4 fields I'm a member of have similar rules in place to avoid similar situations they do not ban 3-d flying specificly but make it known ,fly all the 3-d stuff you want to but do it in such a way that does not leave 10 guys standing there waiting all day watching 3 other guys hover over center runway, the fact that you were there first does not make it your private flying site, thats just common courtesy and some people just can't get that concept through their heads and want to blame the old farts for bullying them well maybe the old farts maturity and sense of fair play is why they are the ones making the rules
I recently attended a scale shootout where a very talented flyer was flying EXTREME 3-d with of all things a huge turbine powered eurosport in a mature and respectful way and with the unselfish consideration that he wasn't the only flyer there and there were as many as 5 or 6 planes in the air at any one time taking off and landing and all doing there thing, so it CAN be done.
99 times out of 100 if theres a club rule theres usually a reason for it and 99 times out of 100 the ones that are screaming the loudest about it are usually that reason ,the rules are there to reasonably insure the rights of membership that include fair and equal use of the facilities and airspace for Everybody.




ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

would it be fair to say

simple rule rule of thumb no flying in such a way as to impede others from taking off or landing and or flying in such a way as to impede others from flying normal circuits 3D and or taking off and landing problem solved, hogging the flying space is hogging the flying space be it 3-d Racetrack or whatever else, every paid member has a right by membership to his or her flying time ''JOINTLY'' with any and all other members, membership does not give you exclusive rights to airspace just because you were there first.

If each member was so equal,
then the racetrack guys need to share with, and not impede, the 3D guys

right?
Old 09-20-2010, 08:48 PM
  #36  
cloudancer03
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Default RE: 3D flying

my god listen to all the moaning and whinning.Is your club going to ban edf jets next after 3D? why would anyone want to fly 90 miles mph and more ..lets just get our senior telemasters and sig kadets outand those foamies.

we cant grow the AMA and clubs lose members hummmmmm wonder why!

3D flying is fun and certainly entertaining and can be very safe when a few simple rules are followed.my electrics fly 3D and not very well but I dont do it near the pits or directly on the runway and I respect the airspace of the other pilots and even wait till the field is clear.Imposing ones distaste for a growing segment of the hobby is sad and discriminatory!

our club has a couple giant scale planes a lot of foamies and sport planes and even a few scale.guess what ??? nobody WHINES <MOANS<OR COMPLAINS!!diversity is okay.

banning a particular brand of flying is WRONG! the club needs to settle their differences and come together to enjoy the hobby as a group.
Old 09-20-2010, 09:13 PM
  #37  
dbcisco
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Default RE: 3D flying

"to avoid the potential for 3 or 4 knuckleheads from from showing up with a trailor load of planes and spending the entire day monopolizing the entire field"

Only 3-D flyers might do this?

Lack of consideration for others is not an attribute of any particular group, at the field or anywhere else.
Old 09-20-2010, 09:13 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: 3D flying

I'm with you cloudancer but there will always be those who want to make it an us against them thing, for some, common sense and courtesy will never sink in deep enough to open their eyes to the bigger picture
Old 09-20-2010, 10:07 PM
  #39  
K-Bob
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: dbcisco

"to avoid the potential for 3 or 4 knuckleheads from from showing up with a trailor load of planes and spending the entire day monopolizing the entire field"

Only 3-D flyers might do this?

Lack of consideration for others is not an attribute of any particular group, at the field or anywhere else.
You're both wrong. It's trailer.

There. It's all settled.
Old 09-20-2010, 10:09 PM
  #40  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: 3D flying

Maybe we should just ban "ban".
is there a petition I can sign for that [8D][8D][8D]
Old 09-20-2010, 10:13 PM
  #41  
K-Bob
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Maybe we should just ban "ban".
is there a petition I can sign for that [8D][8D][8D]
I'll sign it. But if there cannot be a ban, how can youban it?Is it like saying "there are no absolutes"? But that's what I do when I'm confused. I just sign. It works for my accountant and my last real estate agent.

Old 09-20-2010, 10:39 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: 3D flying


Quote me if you like but put the entire sentence in there instead of shortening it to suit your your argument, the instance I make referrence to I have personally witnessed on multiple occasions but after about 4 hours of nobody being able to get up because of it gets damned old in a hurry,I am in no way saying that 3-d flying is personally responsible for the certain clubs banning/limiting that type of flying but rather they are forced to make a general rule that bans /limits that type flying to keep the field from being repeatedly tied up by the same 3 or 4 or 8 or however many knuckleheads in general that daisy chain their flights together and wind up in the same place, dead smack center runway 3 feet off the deck.
For a club to make any rule nuts and bolts specific and cover Every and any particular instance down to the most finite detail would be as thick as a NY phonebook
any clubs primary concerns are about the membership as a whole not a certain few Individuals who think it's their god given right to tie everybody else up repeatedly
and chances are if a certain bunch of flyers are causing problems then chances are they'll get lumped into a category and your probably going to see some kind of club rule limiting or banning it in the greater interest of the membership as a whole.
The point I'm trying to make is that so long as people take into consideration that they aren't the Only ones flying off a particular field and use a little common courtesy with regard to the other flyers that are there it will be a non issue to go and fly all the 3-d stuff you want to.
I really haven't seen much of a problem with any of the other types of flying to speak of to be honest with you but of all the clubs I am a member of they have certain days or evenings they do their thing that is to say the pylon racers don't show up on saturday or sunday morning when they know all the "sport type" flyers are out there and try to shove them off the field, it's a courtesy thing and everybody respects everybody elses time

ORIGINAL: dbcisco

''to avoid the potential for 3 or 4 knuckleheads from from showing up with a trailor load of planes and spending the entire day monopolizing the entire field''

Only 3-D flyers might do this?

Lack of consideration for others is not an attribute of any particular group, at the field or anywhere else.
Old 09-20-2010, 10:59 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: 3D flying

LMAO I'm an exelent spelar what are talkin about

ORIGINAL: K-Bob


ORIGINAL: dbcisco

''to avoid the potential for 3 or 4 knuckleheads from from showing up with a trailor load of planes and spending the entire day monopolizing the entire field''

Only 3-D flyers might do this?

Lack of consideration for others is not an attribute of any particular group, at the field or anywhere else.
You're both wrong. It's trailer.

There. It's all settled. [img][/img]
Old 09-20-2010, 11:25 PM
  #44  
dbcisco
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: warbird addict
LMAO I'm an exelent spelar what are talkin about
And I kwoted you.
Old 09-21-2010, 06:45 AM
  #45  
crash99
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Default RE: 3D flying

Wow,

HIGHSTRUT and others are promoting the 3D hate on this thread again. Sounds like another club want to be a NON AMA promoting club. Why would you want to ban the only group in our hobby that is growing?

Feel free to check out [link]http://www.circleflyers.com[/link] It is so simple. If you think a ban of 3D is good, your a 3D hater, A anti AMA promoting member, One who is promoting the AMA dues to be raised. It is simple. But you have the right to hate. The club has the right to hate as a group.

Look, if there is a 3D flyer having fun and enjoying the hobby, wait until he lands then you can enjoy the hobby circle flying. It works both way. That is how it works here in Central Missouri. Hum ....................... I am sure you would be stomping mad if it was going to ban warbirds. Stop trying to be a bad club, get a clue and get rid of your very bad attude. The hobby is for all.

Just remember, Those how can do, those who can't complain.

Crash99


Old 09-21-2010, 07:15 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: rcplanenut

We have some old far%'s that don't like the noise, so they want to ban it. It's funny because most of them don't even fly, they come to the field just to talk, but they pay there dues so i guess they can do that. If someone wants to take off or land then the 3D fliers clear the flightline in a timley manner so thats not the problem.
We have a "old Fa*t Breakfast Club" at our field. Most of them don't fly, but are still active members. We have made it at our field, that if you aren't an actively flying member.......meaning if you don't fly once a week, you can't make rules for others to follow. They can vote at the elections, just not make rules. Has been working for us.
Old 09-21-2010, 08:33 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: crash99

Wow,

HIGHSTRUT and others are promoting the 3D hate on this thread again. Sounds like another club want to be a NON AMA promoting club. Why would you want to ban the only group in our hobby that is growing?

Feel free to check out [link]http://www.circleflyers.com[/link] It is so simple. If you think a ban of 3D is good, your a 3D hater, A anti AMA promoting member, One who is promoting the AMA dues to be raised. It is simple. But you have the right to hate. The club has the right to hate as a group.

Look, if there is a 3D flyer having fun and enjoying the hobby, wait until he lands then you can enjoy the hobby circle flying. It works both way. That is how it works here in Central Missouri. Hum ....................... I am sure you would be stomping mad if it was going to ban warbirds. Stop trying to be a bad club, get a clue and get rid of your very bad attude. The hobby is for all.

Just remember, Those how can do, those who can't complain.

Crash99


Crash would you reread HIGHSTRUTS posts and show me where I wrote I want to ban 3d flying.
Old 09-21-2010, 08:35 AM
  #48  
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Default RE: 3D flying

Wow,

HIGHSTRUT and others are promoting the 3D hate on this thread again.
It didn't take long for someone to take up the banner that they know what everyone else is saying, and that we all are 3D "haters" if we don't fly 3D. I have read HIGHSTRUTs comments and if anything it is knocking the old guys with hearing aids. He also talks about common sense going BOTH WAYS. I don't see ANY "3D hating" in his threads. See below.....

I would think every club has a flight rule that you must fly the pattern when there's more than one model in the air.( to avoid midairs as a safety factor) So if someone is flying 3d stage front and your ready to take off you call out going up and the 3d'er goes right into circle pattern flying until the air is clear again.
At the clubs I fly the members know how each member flies and give a 3d'er the courtesy of free space when he flies, he lands happy that he did his thing and returns the favor to the other fliers.

It's not reasonable and unsafe to fly stage front 3d right in front of another fliers face as he's flying his $$$$ scale model in a reasonable manner.
Clubs added these rules back in the sixties and seventies when multi-channel radios were introduced, thereby extended aerobatics came to the club fields and had to be controlled in some way. 3d style flying goes back further than you think, it was just labeled 3d when QQ Somenzi started winning contests with his style of flying. Labeling can sometimes make things to be evil to some people, maybe we should go back to calling it AEROBATICS OR FREESTYLE.

All types of modelling and flying is good for the soul and meant to be enjoyed, and kept that way into the future generation.

It would be better that you posted your problem and then told us how you solved the problem satisfying most all involved. Then us old fart$ would know how to solve a similar situation when it occurs as we become older.

Good luck with your endeaver.
It seems the noise of 3d flying is their complaint, the constant pumping of the throttle as you hover and fly harrier rolls irritate those old ears. Before you fly, tell them to turn down their hearing aids and/or have a box of ear plugs to pass out,problem solved.
Those are HIGHSTRUTs posts word for word. I think he is offering some solutions, maybe some are "tongue in cheek", but he is by all means not "hating on 3Drs". I have offered some suggestions too, so I will probably be labeled as another "3D hater" by some. I don't hate 3Drs, I hate ANYBODY who doesn't get along with others. Richard Petty the stock car driver once said in an interview, "The world doesn't revolve around Richard Petty, Richard Petty revolves around in the world". Maybe more of us need to listen to his words of wisdom?!

Old 09-21-2010, 09:20 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: 3D flying

One thing that I do know is that when you go to an event or fly-in, they generally have an exhibition around noon and it's not someone flying around the pattern. For whatever sematics you want to use I call it 3d flying. The only way to get proficient at this is practice, practice, practice. The way to the future is with the younger generation and the best draw we have is the excitement of them being able to do what they see these talented pilots doing. I'm not saying they should be able to take over a field, everyone should have respect for each other. I could be considered (I don't think I am) one of the "old farts" being a member of AARP but can appreciate the talent it takes to fly 3d. I also have re-kitted airplanes to prove that I'm trying to learn this type of flying! But at the end of the day banning or trying to ban a style of flying, if done respectively and safely, will do nothing but drive potential members away.
Old 09-21-2010, 10:28 AM
  #50  
dbcisco
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Default RE: 3D flying


ORIGINAL: crash99
Just remember, Those how can do, those who can't complain.
And those who can use the English language properly don't think everyone is out to get them.
If you read the thread it is mostly about not banning 3-D.

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