Ron S

Your card is obviously different than mine. Any chance you can run a copy of the front and post in up?

JR

Mine also . . . right under your AMA number in small print "License number". Not that it makes that much difference.

If you want to get pickey about the word "license"
Function: verb
Text: Synonyms: AUTHORIZE 1, accredit, commission, empower, enable
Related Word: allow, let, permit, suffer; certify, sanction

So in a sense the AMA does issue a license which empower or enable you to fly in AMA sanctioned events and a AMA club fields (pending club approval).

Red S.

JR and Hotrod,

Sorry, I stand corrected by JR. It does say license on the lower LH corner. I did check it before I posted it, but didn't look as closely as I should have.

I should strike out the first paragraph of my rant. I still think that this is a case more of semantics though, of whether it is a card or license. To me it is not a license. It is just proof that some form of insurance does exist for a particular flyer, while abiding to the AMA rules.

A pilot's, or driver's license all require tests before a license is issued. FCC operators licenses used to require a test - not sure about now. None are required for the AMA card.

Hi JR,
Say, mine says it's a license. Of course any newbie knows that, having been alerted to the requirement to have one by the "Get Your AMA License Here" sign in the window at the LHS. An insolent sort of chap might ask what does it permit me to do that I could not without it?

Abel

The "license" permits you to do all the things that come with membership in the AMA . . . participate in AMA events, belong to clubs that are AMA chartered, fly at lots of places where it is required, receive a magazine and obtain secondary insurance coverage at a bargain rate and be assured that others you fly with are similarly covered. But the insolent sort probably is to dumb to realize or feel he should have this.

Red S.
AMA 951
LM/CD

The beginnings of calling it a license goes back before my time. I guess I always thought it was related to using the term "pilot" which I found disconcerting at first. The dictionary generally refers to a pilot as someone who is licensed to fly. I guess I assumed that the founders of the AMA had kind of decided on the term in a "tongue in cheek" manner. They were more interested in the dissemination of information and sharing anything they discovered about modeling. As MANY have pointed out recently, insurance and the Internet have changed things. Time goes on.

JR

Good idea. I wonder why Auto Club doesn't get on the gravy train and issue licenses, or NRA, or AARP, et al.

Abel

Ever try to enter an event at an NRA club range without an NRA card? Ever try to get an AARP discount without the card? Ever try to get free trip ticks, maps etc. from the AAA without your card.

And you still have to put up with their :bananahea magazine.

Red S.
AMA
NRA
AARP
AAA

Ain't got not AARP card. What is that? Sounds like something I DO NOT WANT.

What I do got is a toy license to be a toy pilot to fly a toy airplane!

JR

Red-
Okay already, it's a freakin' license. I suppose it's less the facade than calling the list of what your secondary insurance policy doesn't cover a 'benefit.'
Since Willy, Shrillary & Co undefined what 'is' is, much of what I read seems to have taken on a whole new level of ambiguity.

"It's not a bug in the software, it's a feature"

Abel

Hey guy's,
All I'm trying to make a point of is that if you are to buy insurance for you car,house,health, or what ever. What do you look for is it something that will cover your but in an emergency, or one that will reimburse you maybe. Do you know the AMA will not cover any body that should reside at that same address as the modeler. Not only that but any relatives weather they no you are a model pilot or not. That is strait out of the AMA site in things that are uncoverd by the AMA policy. The UMA however is a simple insurance for the modeler and it is "PRIMARY" not secondary coverage. What do you think the AMA would charge to be primary all bet a bunch more the the UMA. This is all I'm trying to make clear yes i am a member of the AMA but only for the event's not the insurance. I hope one day the UMA will grow enough to be recognized as insurance good at any event. Also another bit of info the UMA is chartering events as well there is one coming up in Lockhart Texas this Oct. Does the UMA chartered club require you show the UMA license no only that your insured by AMA or UMA. Now tell me who is in it for the modeler UMA or AMA. Is the AMA going to honor another insurance holder to participate in there event again don't think so. That is why i say the UMA is designed for the modeler nothing else no ploys or tactics to make you think there is no other way to go.

hotrod468

What you say is partly true. If another member of your family wants to fly, they must also be an AMA member. My wife is.

Now, when it comes to being primary or secondary, there is a rather large area where the UMA gives no coverage at all. A club's landlord gets a policy that is a full blown liability policy with none of the exclusions that individuals or clubs have. The UMA does not even offer such coverage. The best they can do is suggest that the club buy a membership for the landlord, with all the exclusions that the one for individuals have. How may club's would lose thier field if the landlord was told the club was going to drop his insurance from 2.5 million to 1 million and then his coverage would have some rather substantial holes in it?

While a lot of us look at the AMA policy as secondary, many do not. For many that do not have homes or renter's insurance, the AMA is primary.

The last time I looked the UMA did have an event section, featuring.... tada... one event. You have to keep in mind that the UMA has never claimed to be not for profit, at least that I have ever seen.

As others have pointed out, it might not be a bad idea to have UMA and AMA to protect your homeowner's policy from smaller claims. It is cheap insurance and does have a place. However... there is no comparison to the AMA's insurance package for clubs.

The AMA does not forbid other people from flying at a club's field. Most clubs (not all) do that in the interest of protecting themselves and the landlord. Keep in mind that the AMA does not tell a club very much about how it should be run (yes, it must comply with the safety code and have some by-laws). For more info see the club recharter package on the AMA web site.

JR

all this wory about clubs is sorta wasted effort. clubs are dieing.
as more and more places have to resort to publicly funded sites, we have less and less reason to be in a club. why pay dues to use something that is available to everyone anyway?
public sites can require proof of ins, but they can't tell ya where ya have to buy that ins. ya know, kinda like liability ins fer yer car, you choose the carrier.

mongo

I am not sure where you get the idea clubs are dying. The number of clubs in the AMA has remained very constant for a number or years (about 2500). We lose some, we gain others, but the number remains the same. You can find a post, in this forum, made within the last couple of days, from someone on the east coast that had never seen a municipal field that didn't require AMA to fly.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...25#post1253040

I think, if you were to check, that at many of the municipal sites, there would be no site, if the AMA did not cover the municipality with liability coverage, even if the coverage is for all flyers, AMA or not. That being the case, a club must exist to get the coverage.

Ask the guys in Orange County, CA. Mile Square was closed and they were forced to find other fields to fly at, miles away. I think they will tell you that Municipal sites are a good thing. They certainly had an AMA club. Not all areas of the country have open spaces where a club can establish a field on it's own, even if they have the financial resources to do so..

sometimes the requirement has just never been challenged. once it is, by lawyers and such, the requirement to be ama to use public facilities falls every time.
it would be akin to requiring PGA membership to use the local municiple golf course. can't be done at public funded facilities

Hey dude i think you better go back to the AMA site and read the policy better. Do you think the landlord would like it better if the UMA covered the first mil. not his home owners. Not only that a guy at our field that also holds both policy's got his hand struck by a prop a mistake most of us have made. All let you know who paid the medical bill and it was not the AMA or the home owners insurance. Oh and these holes you talk about in the UMA please explain your self better i would like to know. I will contact them i find out about the little coverage Ive been getting from my primary carrier. Oh and while your at it ask the AMA why you have a deductible with a liability policy. My family is covered under the umbrella of the UMA but not the AMA. Before you start talking down about the better of the 2 policy's you need to get the facts straight AMA will not cover unless all other policy's are exhausted. On top of that the UMA has not got any limitations to who flies at there chartered field and even supports the new modeler with the buddy box before they buy the policy. The UMA insurance is covered by the Gulf Coast Insurance Group the same people that insure our kids in school in Texas. And again PRIMARY means first SECONDARY means second how could the AMA be better if there secondary answer me that. Do you think the AMA will approve a field that has no primary insurance i think not. So when you get your guns out and go to bat because some one got hurt or a plane went threw your windshield you had better not count on the AMA because its not covered.

the last post was for j_r sorry mongo

mongo

Use your head. If a municipality requires 2.5 mil in coverage, what then? And if they refuse to analyze your homeowners policy, but insist on a statement from your insurance company showing that you have the required liability insurance? Municipalities have lawyers too.

JR

Go to the AMA site. Read the club recharter package completely and carefully. If you still have questions, I will try to answer them.

JR

The Lockhart Fly- In which is approved by the city is on the municipal airport what are you getting at. Its good enough for them look at there site if you don't believe me. And if im not wrong the city is backing the event as well. www.lockhartaeromodelers.org

by the way, hotrod468, please point me to the policy on the AMA site.

JR

j_r ,
Thought you would know where to find it you have all the answers to what they cover or not. Look in the pdf documents in the members section.

hotrod468

I guess I'm just dumb. Please supply the document number.

JR

hotrod468

Let me give you a hint. The policy is not and has never been posted on the AMA site.

The following is a section of the document package that I referred you to:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...003clubkit.pdf

page 6

"3. TO PROTECT THE FLYING SITE OWNER. To a property owner who is approached for a flying site, the concern is not
whether the club is protected, the concern is for self-protection. Being able to provide the property owner with a certificate
naming the owner as “additional insured” usually results in property use being granted. Coverage is primary for flying site
owners and event sponsors that are so designated through an additional insured certificate."

I have no desire to fight with you. You have some misunderstanding about what is and is not covered. Some of your assertions are correct. Your assertion that the AMA coverage is secondary is correct IF there is other coverage, and you are talking about individual coverage or club coverage, but not landlord coverage. You might try re-reading my earlier post to you with an open mind.

JR

hotrod468

In your earlier post, you seemed to imply that others that live in your residence and your relatives are covered under your membership. Possibly I am misreading this. They are not, however, covered by your policy. Just as with the AMA there is an additional charge for adult family members residing with you. With the UMA dependent childern are free. With the AMA, childeren, whether dependent or not are $1. Please reference the UMA application on thier web site.

Please take note that the UMA policy is not posted on their site.

If you are going to contact them, ask if non-flying accidents involving the individual, club or landowner are covered (each is a different question). These are the "trip and fall" type of accidents. Example: child falls on a piece of rebar sticking up from the runway and puts his eye out. Who is covered for claims like this, if anyone? I do not know the answer to this question with the UMA. With the AMA these types of accidents are covered for the club and landowner.

Please also address the issue of your family being covered by damage done to them by you. I think you will find that family members are not covered, UMA members or not. The AMA does not cover this.

One last item, ask if libel and slander are covered for individual and/or club members. The AMA has excluded this coverage.

Thanks

JR