dbcisco

Read the requirements for a 501(c)(3) charitable institution which is what the AMA is getting its tax exempt status under.
Are you saying the AMA should give back those millions of taxes it isn't and hasn't been paying?

GerKonig

You ask valid questions. Is a small company less important to the hobby? Of course it is. Think about it. How about some small outfit that manufacutres FF kits? What impact do they have on our hobby in general, honestly,... Big companies are the ones selling the stuff WE actually buy. Yes they have a biggger impact.

As far as how many people you have on a committee, it has to be manageable. Put too many and it would be completely inoperative. They would be arguing about idiotic small details all day long as many do on this kind of boards, and miss entirely the whole picture.

Just thik now of the ATA as your company. Who would you want helping out with the marketing. Those that have a lot of fuccessfull campaigns in their backfround, and are familiar with the market, some guy bending landin gears in a garage? Or putting miniscule wooden pieces in small boxes... As a business person, for me the choice is clear.

After reading threads about whay ATA does not grow, why does it have to grow, and this one, I start recognizing names of the posters (how can you not), and you just kow what a person will say next. I just knew somebody I will not name would come back with the taxes issue, no matter what. And he delivered:-)

My 2 cents.

Gerry

KidEpoxy

Frank
That really was a question I would like an answer to-

dbcisco

I am not the one who brought it up here so get yout facts straight. And you just brought it up again just to make a personal attack.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

I never said anything like that. There is nothing wrong with being a non-profit company. I think I was very neutral on that point. But you can't deduct your membership dues on your income taxes.The AMA is not a charity.

If you join the Sierra Club and recieve their magazine the dues are deductable. If you join PBS and recieve their magazineor any number of museums around the country your dues are tax deductible. Not the AMA. Are you saying the governent owes the AMA members a tax refund ?

Explain to me why the AMA dues are not deductable on income taxes.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

I am not aware of any subsidies.Why are you asking me ?

dbcisco

I don't know if you can deduct dues or not, I never tried or asked.

The AMA is a 501(c)(3) NPO whose given purpose in their own Articles of Incorporation is: "The primary object of the corporation shall be to promote the educational and scientific aspects of model aviation."

According to the IRS a 501(c)(3) organization is:
"Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations"

So, based on that the AMA is a charitable organization.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Thats great news !!!! I'm glad to hear we can deduct our membership dues !!

But back to the main topic......Why is it bad for Hobbico to be on the AMAmarketing board ? Are they going to subvert the charitable contributions donated by members ?

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

I think this characterization is not accurate.....looks like another one of your overgeneralizations.

While that group of organizations might commonly lumped together as "charitable organizatons", I think doing so leaves out some important information.

From Wikopedia:

501(c)(3) — Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations

I happen to think the AMA fits several of these catagories and not the charitable one. Educational, scientific, foster sports competiton, at the very least. The AMA also promotes safety in our hobby and has done tersting in this area, with radio systems and noise.

dbcisco

I don't know if it is good or bad. I just think it makes the AMA look like they are playing favorites.
That alone should be incentive for a marketing team to change things. Heck, if they can't figure out they have what appears to be a conflict of interest, I seriously doubt that they know anything about marketing an NPO.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

I vaguely recall thatmodel aviationwas listed as a sport by the International Olympic Commitee a few years back. OMG, we are jocks !

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

What would lead you to believe they cannot identify "what appears to be a conflict of interest"?

dbcisco

Apparently the issue was raised previously as a CoI violating the By-Laws. That was "discounted" by the powers at the time.
My take on the whole matter is that marketing for an NPO is PR, PR and more PR. Anything that "looks" bad is bad PR and needs to be eliminated. That they have not done so is IMHO a glaring demonstration that the "marketing team" knows nothing about "marketing" the AMA. The AMA is not selling a product, we are trying to entice like minded hobbyists to come join us.
OTOH, maybe we are just selling magazines and insurance in which case we should get Allstate and the Hearst Group on the committee.[]

FILE IFR

Unfortunately, R/C flying clubs do not accept Allstate insurance cards.

KidEpoxy

Hooey!
Of course RC flying clubs accept Hartford etc.
You are confusing the AMA being the entire hobby (lotta members do).
Sure, there are some RC flying clubs that only allow one brand of insurance (AMA for example), but there are clubs that dont have that restriction.

Y'all remember STL, and why we keep saying 'the Hartford' when we talk about non-AMA insurance?
Not all history has been rewritten/purged by those guys at our Official board

dbcisco

Are you talking about the insurance monopoly the AMA has on AMA chatered clubs?
That should be another thread.

KidEpoxy

Not talking about it.
Just correcting some Disinformation

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If Hoss hadn't brought this topic to our attention, how many would have honestly put 2 and 2 together and see some kind of "issue" here?

rambler53

My Feedback: (494)

Who ever liked Lanier? I still can't say the name where I fly without getting eye rolls and chuckles. There are a few remnants sitting over at mecoa for sale, for years now that nobody wants. Lanier was garbage for the most part. I never tried their 1/4 scale planes, maybe that was their nitch?
Goldberg was always more expensive when apparently everyone wanted $99 ARFs, not $169 ARFs from Goldberg for the equivalent. Goldberg had some good hardware components though I miss. How they gave up was because I think the owner died, his wife couldn't handle the job, and they sold out?

Maybe it's more a devalued US dollar at play and nearly everything is made overseas?
Tower is known for it's coupons and free shipping to club members. Any sale over $99 right now ships free. What's that worth?
$60 off a $300 order, not too many distributors give 20% off nearly every month AND free shipping over $150.

Tower shouldn't be criticized for being smart in business. They're customer service is unmatched in this hobby from my experience.
What does AMA have to do with any of this?
By the way, a Tower search link is right here on this page, top left corner. How convenient. I use it all the time. The scratch and dent bargains that come up at 5pm Friday's have always been a great time to shop every week for me. I look for box damage bargains.

How does this tie into AMA again?

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

You ask valid questions. Is a small company less important to the hobby? Of course it is. Think about it. How about some small outfit that manufacutres FF kits? What impact do they have on our hobby in general, honestly,... Big companies are the ones selling the stuff WE actually buy. Yes they have a biggger impact.

As far as how many people you have on a committee, it has to be manageable. Put too many and it would be completely inoperative. They would be arguing about idiotic small details all day long as many do on this kind of boards, and miss entirely the whole picture.

Just thik now of the ATA as your company. Who would you want helping out with the marketing. Those that have a lot of fuccessfull campaigns in their backfround, and are familiar with the market, some guy bending landin gears in a garage? Or putting miniscule wooden pieces in small boxes... As a business person, for me the choice is clear.

After reading threads about whay ATA does not grow, why does it have to grow, and this one, I start recognizing names of the posters (how can you not), and you just kow what a person will say next. I just knew somebody I will not name would come back with the taxes issue, no matter what. And he delivered:-)

My 2 cents.

Gerry
[/quote]


Thanks for the post. Here is my opinion on the matter. I totally disagree that a small company is less important to the hobby. To me, it is much MORE important than the large company because they are the builders, the ones that make the whole thing move. I think being a "respector of persons" or "respector of companies" is VERY dangerous for an org like AMA. This has just about corrupted corporate America now and it has ruined the government (another story for another time).

Big business has failed to get back to the foundation blocks that make any business or organization successful. They all but forget the ones that put the mortar on the bricks and the foundation builders KNOW that the guy that cleans the bathroom is as important as the top executive if not more so. Every piece is crucial and important for the building to stand.

I realize you can have only so many people on a committee, but those people can listen to the VOICE of the people that make the hobby what it is. This is the point I was attempting to get accross. You won't make everyone happy, but at least you will do what you were voted in to do and the majority will be on board.

Just 1.5 more cents on the pile

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Tower was not smart, they were predatory. They deliberatly killed dozens of businesses. Sell to us for dirt cheap oryou don't get in the catalog. And if you don't get in the catalog you die. That is how it was before the internet. Tower's catalog was twice the size it is now and Hobbico wasn't anywhere in it.

Now Tower lacks diversity in their stock and it is killing them. They must beg companies like Aerowrks to join with them. But companies like Aeroworks are few and far between where once they were plentiful.

Tower Hobbies survives now by selling cars to children.And , it appears they have learnedtheir lesson. Sure, Lanier was crap. But how about the dozens of other kit manufactures that went the wayof the dodo ? There were some great ones.

Being bigand being smart are not the same thing.

rambler53

My Feedback: (494)

The demise of small businesses unable to sell kits and so forth was due to a product line that wasn't popular enough to survive. Tower didn't do anything but market successful products that people would buy. The culture you're familiar with, is dying with the generation that enjoyed it. Today everyone wants RTF, park sized EP, and they want it fast and cheap.

As much as I considered kit building to be part of the hobby in the 70s and 80s, I like most people, simply have no time for it today. Tower supplies 80% of my needs. A handful of Goldberg kits remain on Tower's site. They're probably still listed because they don't sell. $10-20 more, you've got an ARF that goes together in a fraction of the time. That's not Tower's fault. That's tower's vision to keep up with the times.

cloudancer03

My Feedback: (22)

my god another wingnut thread!!What the AMA has to do with Hobbico or Goldberg or any aspect of the business of selling airplanes is beyond me.In case you havent noticed the number of hobby shops and dealers has been steadliy declining.I wont argue all the ecomonic factors but one of the biggest issues is the flood of chinese made knockoffs coming into the hobby.quality is not the primary factor in buying a kit or engine or electronics .PRICE is the bottom line!!!And yes most builders have forgotten about building kits as most of the planes are plastic and foam ..and if nobody is buying kits then companies like goldberg will cease and even if they produce an arf the labor costs are higher as we do not pay an employee a 1dollar per hour to make the kit.Towers decision to takeove an company is one based on business conditions and not the AMA.

I will also say that the threads attacking AMA or any organization are seemingly being made to degrade and insult and do not follow the basic tenets outlined inthe rcu rules and the moderators need to start being more observant of those rules.rcu is letting this stuff run amuck and soon it will become an unattractive place to post anything.alreaDY FINDING OTHER OPTIONS TO LEARN AND DISCUSS RC.ARE YOU LISTENING MODERATORS???

dbcisco

Funny how the people complaining about "off-topic" posts have the longest off-topic posts.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I have read through the AMA threads and don't get that AMA is being attacked by anyone? Who is attacking AMA? If someone brings out discussion and some factual statements and even a discussion like hossfly posted about hobbico, who is attacking AMA?