Where should the AMA be pointed
07-29-2003 | 05:10 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
I have copied two posts from another thread to start this one.
JR
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rsallen13
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Ok JR:
#1 Accountability - Post the financials within 60 days of the completion of the fiscal year. I mean detailed, audited, and in MA; similar to what corporations do in there annual report. Not the stuff we get now a year later that really tells us little.
#2 Inclusion - Allow for a competition fee that will allow non-ama flyer's to compete under AMA guidelines (and insurance) at events and competitions (only during that specific event) for a fee of say $25.00. After a couple of events it would be cheaper for them to join and we might get more attendance and more members. We sell membership for AMA and IMAA at events so don't say it won't work because the basis for this is already established.
#3 Awareness - Have Muncie foster more corporate sponsorship of events at the club level and provide for a corporate sponsorship system such as golf, racing and the Olympics have to raise funding and increase advertising of the AMA. Using the radio companies as an example could lead to more involvement on their part to ensure the long term access to our frequencies. Right now vendors and manufactures are swamped with request from clubs to the point they rarely respond or support local events. Coordination from a District or National level would help in this arena.
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good.
#5 Voice - Give Club Presidents real input in to the AMA operations. They are your front line people who are now doing most of the real work in promoting AMA. For the most part I think you will find the Club Presidents feel left out and unsupported by AMA.
#6 Integrity - Remove the EC from the Nominating process. The conflict of interest that incumbents have in this process unreal. A separate group of non-ec volunteers or appointee's could handle this. A couple of conference calls and emails and follow ups by these individuals is needed for this process. In this day and age we don't need to fly them to Muncie to select nominees.
#7 Progress - Begin to move to the internet for the voting process. This could increase voting participation.
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
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Ron Allen
AMA #508696
Old enough to know better, to young to care!
1833 USMC
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Jim Branaum
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quote:
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Originally posted by rsallen13
Ok JR:
#1 Accountability - Post the financials within 60 days of the completion of the fiscal year. I mean detailed, audited, and in MA; similar to what corporations do in there annual report. Not the stuff we get now a year later that really tells us little.
#2 Inclusion - Allow for a competition fee that will allow non-ama flyer's to compete under AMA guidelines (and insurance) at events and competitions (only during that specific event) for a fee of say $25.00. After a couple of events it would be cheaper for them to join and we might get more attendance and more members. We sell membership for AMA and IMAA at events so don't say it won't work because the basis for this is already established.
#3 Awareness - Have Muncie foster more corporate sponsorship of events at the club level and provide for a corporate sponsorship system such as golf, racing and the Olympics have to raise funding and increase advertising of the AMA. Using the radio companies as an example could lead to more involvement on their part to ensure the long term access to our frequencies. Right now vendors and manufactures are swamped with request from clubs to the point they rarely respond or support local events. Coordination from a District or National level would help in this arena.
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good.
#5 Voice - Give Club Presidents real input in to the AMA operations. They are your front line people who are now doing most of the real work in promoting AMA. For the most part I think you will find the Club Presidents feel left out and unsupported by AMA.
#6 Integrity - Remove the EC from the Nominating process. The conflict of interest that incumbents have in this process unreal. A separate group of non-ec volunteers or appointee's could handle this. A couple of conference calls and emails and follow ups by these individuals is needed for this process. In this day and age we don't need to fly them to Muncie to select nominees.
#7 Progress - Begin to move to the internet for the voting process. This could increase voting participation.
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron,
I like most but do not think your first will work. It may not be possible in that time frame to have an audited result. However, waiting a year simply is not good enough.
The integrity issue in the nominations is already under close review and it will probably include club officers.
__________________
Jim Branaum AMA LM 1428
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JR
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http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...13#post1227225
rsallen13
Casual Observer
Registered: May 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Discussion Post Total: 200
Ok JR:
#1 Accountability - Post the financials within 60 days of the completion of the fiscal year. I mean detailed, audited, and in MA; similar to what corporations do in there annual report. Not the stuff we get now a year later that really tells us little.
#2 Inclusion - Allow for a competition fee that will allow non-ama flyer's to compete under AMA guidelines (and insurance) at events and competitions (only during that specific event) for a fee of say $25.00. After a couple of events it would be cheaper for them to join and we might get more attendance and more members. We sell membership for AMA and IMAA at events so don't say it won't work because the basis for this is already established.
#3 Awareness - Have Muncie foster more corporate sponsorship of events at the club level and provide for a corporate sponsorship system such as golf, racing and the Olympics have to raise funding and increase advertising of the AMA. Using the radio companies as an example could lead to more involvement on their part to ensure the long term access to our frequencies. Right now vendors and manufactures are swamped with request from clubs to the point they rarely respond or support local events. Coordination from a District or National level would help in this arena.
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good.
#5 Voice - Give Club Presidents real input in to the AMA operations. They are your front line people who are now doing most of the real work in promoting AMA. For the most part I think you will find the Club Presidents feel left out and unsupported by AMA.
#6 Integrity - Remove the EC from the Nominating process. The conflict of interest that incumbents have in this process unreal. A separate group of non-ec volunteers or appointee's could handle this. A couple of conference calls and emails and follow ups by these individuals is needed for this process. In this day and age we don't need to fly them to Muncie to select nominees.
#7 Progress - Begin to move to the internet for the voting process. This could increase voting participation.
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
__________________
Ron Allen
AMA #508696
Old enough to know better, to young to care!
1833 USMC
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http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...14#post1227307
Jim Branaum
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Registered: Oct 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Discussion Post Total: 278
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by rsallen13
Ok JR:
#1 Accountability - Post the financials within 60 days of the completion of the fiscal year. I mean detailed, audited, and in MA; similar to what corporations do in there annual report. Not the stuff we get now a year later that really tells us little.
#2 Inclusion - Allow for a competition fee that will allow non-ama flyer's to compete under AMA guidelines (and insurance) at events and competitions (only during that specific event) for a fee of say $25.00. After a couple of events it would be cheaper for them to join and we might get more attendance and more members. We sell membership for AMA and IMAA at events so don't say it won't work because the basis for this is already established.
#3 Awareness - Have Muncie foster more corporate sponsorship of events at the club level and provide for a corporate sponsorship system such as golf, racing and the Olympics have to raise funding and increase advertising of the AMA. Using the radio companies as an example could lead to more involvement on their part to ensure the long term access to our frequencies. Right now vendors and manufactures are swamped with request from clubs to the point they rarely respond or support local events. Coordination from a District or National level would help in this arena.
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good.
#5 Voice - Give Club Presidents real input in to the AMA operations. They are your front line people who are now doing most of the real work in promoting AMA. For the most part I think you will find the Club Presidents feel left out and unsupported by AMA.
#6 Integrity - Remove the EC from the Nominating process. The conflict of interest that incumbents have in this process unreal. A separate group of non-ec volunteers or appointee's could handle this. A couple of conference calls and emails and follow ups by these individuals is needed for this process. In this day and age we don't need to fly them to Muncie to select nominees.
#7 Progress - Begin to move to the internet for the voting process. This could increase voting participation.
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron,
I like most but do not think your first will work. It may not be possible in that time frame to have an audited result. However, waiting a year simply is not good enough.
The integrity issue in the nominations is already under close review and it will probably include club officers.
__________________
Jim Branaum AMA LM 1428
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07-29-2003 | 05:39 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Why won't #1 work? We have a full time employee at AMA that is employed specifically to handle our financials and, if we don't we should, have an outside auditing firm do our books and it can't be done in 60 days? The foundation I work at does it in 30 to 45 days.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
07-29-2003 | 05:44 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by rsallen13
Why won't #1 work? We have a full time employee at AMA that is employed specifically to handle our financials and, if we don't we should, have an outside auditing firm do our books and it can't be done in 60 days? The foundation I work at does it in 30 to 45 days.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
Why won't #1 work? We have a full time employee at AMA that is employed specifically to handle our financials and, if we don't we should, have an outside auditing firm do our books and it can't be done in 60 days? The foundation I work at does it in 30 to 45 days.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
If I recall correctly, the last AR I looked at had a date that was almost 90 days after the first of the year. Maybe we need to ask for better management of that particular function. That means overcoming more inertia! Time for tenacity?
07-29-2003 | 05:50 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Ron
1. The Financial Statement is posted in the AMA Member's Only section of the AMA web site within a few days of it's receipt by the AMA. The auditors take until the end of March to finish their work and it was up this year in about 10 days after that. 2002 IS the most current year for such a statement. Obviously, 2003 can not be done until it is over. (This is true when the guys that run the web site do it right. Rumor is that the AMA may change suppliers.)
2. The AMA has already announced an "introductory membership" for three months at $19.95. It is a one time thing and can not be renewed or taken again. This is close to what you suggest. If a competitor can not make his mind up in 90 days, so be it.
3. Part of your concern here is obviously at the discretion of the manufacturer's. The Radio companies do sponsor individuals. We have one in our club. The same is true of kits and other items. When it comes to donations, you are correct. They recieve too many requests to make it cost effective. In reality, if you are running an established rule book event, of class AA or better, it is not that difficult to get them to help out. The CD program has been abused from it's initial intent and it is making it harder for the sanctioned events, less than class AA, to get donations. There are just to many fly-ins where donations are sought. Remember, there are about 2500 clubs, all running a couple of events a year. There are only so many donations to be had.
4. Look at the districts other than D8 this year. Each VP is running unopposed. The discussion and/or implimentation of term limits needs to have the problem of attracting candidates resolved first. If you institute term limits in the current situation, you might wind up with no leaders. The possibility that term limits "might" make more candidates likely is not an acceptable situation.
5. Very interesting that you raise this point. I was talking to Dave Brown just last week about the nominating process and it's potential for abuse. He has an idea, not complete in details, but fleshed out. He would hand the duties of the Nominating Committee to the club presidents of each district and let them select from the candidates nominated by the membership. The club presidents would become the nominating committee. As I see this, it has all kinds of great side effects, right down there to getting club members more involved in the process. Rich Hansen is the Committee Chairman of the By-laws Committee. It's function is to make recomendations for changes. It is a slow process.
6. See 5.
7. This has, and is being looked at. The potential for abuse is beng looked at. Keep your eyes open, this might happen sooner than later. As far as I know, no EC member is opposed to the basic concept, they just want it right when it happens.
None of this stuff is a secret. Call or write to your VP, or DB. These guys do talk and will tell you what is going on. If you attend a show where the AMA is present, look our leaders up. If they share nothing else in common, other than models, they love to talk.
Hey, Ron, are you a shill for the AMA?
JR
1. The Financial Statement is posted in the AMA Member's Only section of the AMA web site within a few days of it's receipt by the AMA. The auditors take until the end of March to finish their work and it was up this year in about 10 days after that. 2002 IS the most current year for such a statement. Obviously, 2003 can not be done until it is over. (This is true when the guys that run the web site do it right. Rumor is that the AMA may change suppliers.)
2. The AMA has already announced an "introductory membership" for three months at $19.95. It is a one time thing and can not be renewed or taken again. This is close to what you suggest. If a competitor can not make his mind up in 90 days, so be it.
3. Part of your concern here is obviously at the discretion of the manufacturer's. The Radio companies do sponsor individuals. We have one in our club. The same is true of kits and other items. When it comes to donations, you are correct. They recieve too many requests to make it cost effective. In reality, if you are running an established rule book event, of class AA or better, it is not that difficult to get them to help out. The CD program has been abused from it's initial intent and it is making it harder for the sanctioned events, less than class AA, to get donations. There are just to many fly-ins where donations are sought. Remember, there are about 2500 clubs, all running a couple of events a year. There are only so many donations to be had.
4. Look at the districts other than D8 this year. Each VP is running unopposed. The discussion and/or implimentation of term limits needs to have the problem of attracting candidates resolved first. If you institute term limits in the current situation, you might wind up with no leaders. The possibility that term limits "might" make more candidates likely is not an acceptable situation.
5. Very interesting that you raise this point. I was talking to Dave Brown just last week about the nominating process and it's potential for abuse. He has an idea, not complete in details, but fleshed out. He would hand the duties of the Nominating Committee to the club presidents of each district and let them select from the candidates nominated by the membership. The club presidents would become the nominating committee. As I see this, it has all kinds of great side effects, right down there to getting club members more involved in the process. Rich Hansen is the Committee Chairman of the By-laws Committee. It's function is to make recomendations for changes. It is a slow process.
6. See 5.
7. This has, and is being looked at. The potential for abuse is beng looked at. Keep your eyes open, this might happen sooner than later. As far as I know, no EC member is opposed to the basic concept, they just want it right when it happens.
None of this stuff is a secret. Call or write to your VP, or DB. These guys do talk and will tell you what is going on. If you attend a show where the AMA is present, look our leaders up. If they share nothing else in common, other than models, they love to talk.
Hey, Ron, are you a shill for the AMA?
JR
07-29-2003 | 06:01 PM
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Re: Where should the AMA be pointed
[QUOTE]Originally posted by J_R
[B]
#1 Accountability :thumbup:
#2 Inclusion - :thumbup:
#3 Awareness - :thumbup:
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good. :thumbdown:
Sorry - I still contend that this unloads responsibility for the membership to take care of problems with their vote.
#5 Voice - :thumbup: Expand to include Leader Members re-certified every 5 years to assure continued active participation in the hobby.
#6 Integrity - :thumbup: Remove the EC from the Nominating process. Mandatory to make number 4 work.
#7 Progress - :thumbup:
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
A darn good start Ron Allen !
Red S.
AMA 951
Leader Member
District V
[B]
#1 Accountability :thumbup:
#2 Inclusion - :thumbup:
#3 Awareness - :thumbup:
#4 Change - Limit the President of AMA to two terms and allow the districts to determine if they would like to limit DVP terms. Change at the top at regular intervals is good. :thumbdown:
Sorry - I still contend that this unloads responsibility for the membership to take care of problems with their vote.
#5 Voice - :thumbup: Expand to include Leader Members re-certified every 5 years to assure continued active participation in the hobby.
#6 Integrity - :thumbup: Remove the EC from the Nominating process. Mandatory to make number 4 work.
#7 Progress - :thumbup:
Well thats a start. Maybe we should start a new thread with this, but for now I'll post it here and as I think of more I'll add to the list.
A darn good start Ron Allen !
Red S.
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07-29-2003 | 06:10 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
my personal opinion is, that if you force incumbants out after 2 terms, then the folks that feel that there is no way to beat incumbancy will run.
i also am involved with 2 major 501* corps, and auditors taking 90 days would be fired. 30 is the norm.
i also am involved with 2 major 501* corps, and auditors taking 90 days would be fired. 30 is the norm.
07-29-2003 | 06:43 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by J_R
Ron
Hey, Ron, are you a shill for the AMA?
JR
Ron
Hey, Ron, are you a shill for the AMA?
JR
Also proud owner of an official RCU/AMA Forum flame-suit.
Seriously JR:
1. It takes till the end of March??????? to get the audit done? If AMA's fiscal year closes at the end of December, then we should have our numbers, and have it posted no later that Mid March for the website and as a special insert to the next Magazine mailing. Anything more than that sounds like feet dragging to the membership. Maybe I'm unreasonable in my time line, but the current process doesn't get the numbers to the membership (and limited info at that) until April if it makes it to the website in a timely manner and July or later (again limited info). The website should carry the complete audit for review for the membership just as if we were shareholders in a corporation.
2. Intro membership is great so what is wrong with a one event competition membership. The more ways we can get them to convert to AMA the better. Also, it might actually increase attendance at competitions.
3. Centralized organization and sponsor packages would help to increase club participation in events.
4. The lack of nominees in each district for DVP does not change the need for a two term limit for the Pres. We always seem to have enough (that even get past the EC) to run for Pres.
5. The question is: "Is it from lack of interest or is it a problem with the process as a whole? Taking it back down to the club level might increase interest.
6. Hope it happens for all EC offices including president.
7. And the current voting process looks like we inherited it from Florida. Ballots thrown out questions as to if they were sent out. etc. etc. I don't think a combination of both, at least in the short term would not be any worse that what we are doing now.
Oh and I want to be able to get more REAL information fro the website instead of having to call them or one of my district reps. Thats what its there for and I only want to bother my reps for really important stuff like my picture in the Magazine.
07-29-2003 | 06:47 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mongo
[B]my personal opinion is, that if you force incumbants out after 2 terms, then the folks that feel that there is no way to beat incumbancy will run.
Mongo, 4 out of 5 seats are going unchallenged this year so I'll buy that when some challengers step forward and at least TRY! Until that time NO TERM LIMITS. I have a feeling that the playing field may get a little leveling after this election. Feeling that there is no way to beat the incumbent is a cop out. Admittedly some EC members will go to unbelievable ends to hang on to their seat. With persistence and the right candidate that can be overcome as you will see next year in District V.
Our club passed a term limit provision (put in by officers that would run only under a condition of term limits). They had to rescind it because the only ones that would take a position were ruled out by the term limits.
Red S.
District V
Where we will got the job done without term limits!
[B]my personal opinion is, that if you force incumbants out after 2 terms, then the folks that feel that there is no way to beat incumbancy will run.
Mongo, 4 out of 5 seats are going unchallenged this year so I'll buy that when some challengers step forward and at least TRY! Until that time NO TERM LIMITS. I have a feeling that the playing field may get a little leveling after this election. Feeling that there is no way to beat the incumbent is a cop out. Admittedly some EC members will go to unbelievable ends to hang on to their seat. With persistence and the right candidate that can be overcome as you will see next year in District V.
Our club passed a term limit provision (put in by officers that would run only under a condition of term limits). They had to rescind it because the only ones that would take a position were ruled out by the term limits.
Red S.
District V
Where we will got the job done without term limits!
07-29-2003 | 06:57 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by rsallen13
Why won't #1 work? We have a full time employee at AMA that is employed specifically to handle our financials and, if we don't we should, have an outside auditing firm do our books and it can't be done in 60 days? The foundation I work at does it in 30 to 45 days.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
Why won't #1 work? We have a full time employee at AMA that is employed specifically to handle our financials and, if we don't we should, have an outside auditing firm do our books and it can't be done in 60 days? The foundation I work at does it in 30 to 45 days.
Oh and nice talking to you today.
I'm no CPA, but as an engineer and project manager, I've had responsibility for enterprises with budgets comparable to AMA's. The fiscal reporting is a peripheral part of this sort of job, but I darned well never got the slack to be more than 30 days behind on reporting detailed 'situational awareness' of budgetary matters. You're right on, and further the job of chief bean counter doesn't need to be the #2 job in AMA. The #2 position should be held by someone well qualified to step into the #1 slot on very short notice. That takes more than knowing where the checkbook is.
Very thoughtful and sweeping list that you provided of issues that should be on the minds of our EC members. If you ever consider running for AMA office, you will surely have my attention.
Abel
07-29-2003 | 07:53 PM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
Thanks for the compliment Abel but for right now my energy is directed to my kids 8, 5, 4, 2. All of which are AMA members! Someday I hope to get them to the field and teach them to fly. Once I can get time to get back to the field on a regular basis I might think about it. For now I'll just continue to stir the pot, assist where I can, and continue to build up my stock pile of un-tested planes I build in my basement.
Someday I hope to get them to the field and teach them to fly. Once I can get time to get back to the field on a regular basis I might think about it. For now I'll just continue to stir the pot, assist where I can, and continue to build up my stock pile of un-tested planes I build in my basement.
07-30-2003 | 12:08 AM
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Where should the AMA be pointed
There was a lot more to Dave Brown's thoughts. I will do my best to relate them. I asked, at the end of our conversation, if anything should not be posted, and as usual, he said it was no problem.
I had asked him if he intended to run again for AMA office. He is undecided. He started to explain a vision he has. I have no idea how wide the support for it is. The first part was the nominating process I outlined in the previous post.
The leadership of the AMA would be changed. Instead of the VP's we have now, each district would elect a member to a Board of Directors. The Board would then elect, from their membership, a CEO. The position of EVP would be eliminated and replaced with an appointed position. Part of the duties of the new Board would be to find an AMA member with the qualifications to be a CFO. This CFO would serve at the will of the Board. This would eliminate the political nature of the job as it is currently structured. That should make finding a willing and qualified individual easier.
On the HQ side, the Board would hire a President. This person would handle the day to day contacts with the outside world and the running of HQ. The President would be responsible to the Board and serve at their will. Currently, when the media, or government agencies call, there is a scramble to find someone to talk to them. Even simple things like opening a bank account currently have to be done by overnight letters because there is not on site officer available in Muncie.
There is a fly in the ointment. This would all have to be done in a by-laws change. If the by-laws are approved, the President, at that point, would have to resign and there would be no place for him. Dave is willing to do that. As you can imagine, another, just elected individual might not be so willing to give up his new position of power.
It's just my opinion, but, if Dave Brown see's his vision coming to fruition, I think he will run again. If not, who knows. On occasion he sounds very tired. As he said; "Only fools run for AMA VP, only damned fools run for AMA President"
This all sounds pretty good to me. I would like to see what others think of his plan. If you really like it or hate it, post your opinions. IF you really really like it or really really hate it, write him and let him know. You need to comment on specifics so he gets some input. He did NOT request this. The input is my idea.
There obviously are a lot of details lacking. I thought it might make for an interesting discussion here.
JR
I had asked him if he intended to run again for AMA office. He is undecided. He started to explain a vision he has. I have no idea how wide the support for it is. The first part was the nominating process I outlined in the previous post.
The leadership of the AMA would be changed. Instead of the VP's we have now, each district would elect a member to a Board of Directors. The Board would then elect, from their membership, a CEO. The position of EVP would be eliminated and replaced with an appointed position. Part of the duties of the new Board would be to find an AMA member with the qualifications to be a CFO. This CFO would serve at the will of the Board. This would eliminate the political nature of the job as it is currently structured. That should make finding a willing and qualified individual easier.
On the HQ side, the Board would hire a President. This person would handle the day to day contacts with the outside world and the running of HQ. The President would be responsible to the Board and serve at their will. Currently, when the media, or government agencies call, there is a scramble to find someone to talk to them. Even simple things like opening a bank account currently have to be done by overnight letters because there is not on site officer available in Muncie.
There is a fly in the ointment. This would all have to be done in a by-laws change. If the by-laws are approved, the President, at that point, would have to resign and there would be no place for him. Dave is willing to do that. As you can imagine, another, just elected individual might not be so willing to give up his new position of power.
It's just my opinion, but, if Dave Brown see's his vision coming to fruition, I think he will run again. If not, who knows. On occasion he sounds very tired. As he said; "Only fools run for AMA VP, only damned fools run for AMA President"
This all sounds pretty good to me. I would like to see what others think of his plan. If you really like it or hate it, post your opinions. IF you really really like it or really really hate it, write him and let him know. You need to comment on specifics so he gets some input. He did NOT request this. The input is my idea.
There obviously are a lot of details lacking. I thought it might make for an interesting discussion here.
JR
07-30-2003 | 01:25 AM
#12
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Where should the AMA be pointed
just as long as they, the new policys, don't ferget about all the folks like me, not a member of any club anywhere. we out in the cold already, so to speak, but some of what has been sugested would force us even further out.
07-30-2003 | 05:16 AM
#14
The Forest and the Trees! Some fail to see either,
>>>>>>"Instead of the VP's we have now, each district would elect a member to a Board of Directors. "<<<<<<
No difference than now. Call him a VP or a Director. It's all the same -- an elected rep.
>>>>>>
"The Board would then elect, from their membership, a CEO. The position of EVP would be eliminated and replaced with an appointed position. Part of the duties of the new Board would be to find an AMA member with the qualifications to be a CFO. This CFO would serve at the will of the Board."
<<<<<<<<<
As in a business corporation the AMA would have a Board almost completely autonomous. Almost same as now, and the stockholders/members would even be more in the mushroom factory than now. (That means fed sh_t and kept in the dark)
>>>>>>>> "This would eliminate the political nature of the job as it is currently structured. "
<<<<<<<<<<<<
You must be kidding. The politics would INCREASE by the SQUARE as the *directors* maneuvered around the CFO for favors, just like a large corporation. The CFO would play them like a well-tuned violin.
>>>>>>>
On the HQ side, the Board would hire a President. This person would handle the day to day contacts with the outside world and the running of HQ. The President would be responsible to the Board and serve at their will.
<<<<<<<<<
That is what happens now. The Council (Board) hires an Executive Director (same thing as the proposed rename) and that person is responsible to the Council which must be happy with the ED's running headquarters as I see where a bonus is discussed on an annual basis. So where's the meat???
>>>>>>>>.
Currently, when the media, or government agencies call, there is a scramble to find someone to talk to them. Even simple things like opening a bank account currently have to be done by overnight letters because there is not on site officer available in Muncie.
<<<<<<<
AMA Bylaws Article X, Section 7 designates the Executive Director as AMA's Chief Operating Officer, and charged with accepting funds and making disbursements plus a number of other duties. If that person cannot handle any problem within the EC's established policy lines, then it is either or both the fault of the EC and the Ex. Director's substandard performance and lack of job knowledge.
The proposal as you state it DOES NOTHING OTHER THAN CONCENTRATE MORE POWER WITHIN THE MUNCIE GROUP WHILE ADDING TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP EVEN MORE INFORMATION FROM THE MEMBERSHIP.
STRUCTURALLY ALL REMAINS NEAR THE SAME AS NOW, JUST CHANGES THE WAY CERTAIN POSITIONS ARE FILLED, and a few names.
Relates to the big *Think Tank* so appointed by Pres. John Kennedy and called *The Green Mountain Boys.* While a majority thought GM Boys were for environment study, their real charge was to determine more methods for the Federal Government to circumvent the Constitution to exercise more control over the people.
Now the same charge is down into the toy-airplane recreational activity. As the English politician, Lord Boyd Orr, so stated, "If people have to choose between Freedom and sandwiches, they will take the sandwiches."
JR, did you get a pickle with your sandwich?
No difference than now. Call him a VP or a Director. It's all the same -- an elected rep.
>>>>>>
"The Board would then elect, from their membership, a CEO. The position of EVP would be eliminated and replaced with an appointed position. Part of the duties of the new Board would be to find an AMA member with the qualifications to be a CFO. This CFO would serve at the will of the Board."
<<<<<<<<<
As in a business corporation the AMA would have a Board almost completely autonomous. Almost same as now, and the stockholders/members would even be more in the mushroom factory than now. (That means fed sh_t and kept in the dark)
>>>>>>>> "This would eliminate the political nature of the job as it is currently structured. "
<<<<<<<<<<<<
You must be kidding. The politics would INCREASE by the SQUARE as the *directors* maneuvered around the CFO for favors, just like a large corporation. The CFO would play them like a well-tuned violin.
>>>>>>>
On the HQ side, the Board would hire a President. This person would handle the day to day contacts with the outside world and the running of HQ. The President would be responsible to the Board and serve at their will.
<<<<<<<<<
That is what happens now. The Council (Board) hires an Executive Director (same thing as the proposed rename) and that person is responsible to the Council which must be happy with the ED's running headquarters as I see where a bonus is discussed on an annual basis. So where's the meat???
>>>>>>>>.
Currently, when the media, or government agencies call, there is a scramble to find someone to talk to them. Even simple things like opening a bank account currently have to be done by overnight letters because there is not on site officer available in Muncie.
<<<<<<<
AMA Bylaws Article X, Section 7 designates the Executive Director as AMA's Chief Operating Officer, and charged with accepting funds and making disbursements plus a number of other duties. If that person cannot handle any problem within the EC's established policy lines, then it is either or both the fault of the EC and the Ex. Director's substandard performance and lack of job knowledge.
The proposal as you state it DOES NOTHING OTHER THAN CONCENTRATE MORE POWER WITHIN THE MUNCIE GROUP WHILE ADDING TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP EVEN MORE INFORMATION FROM THE MEMBERSHIP.
STRUCTURALLY ALL REMAINS NEAR THE SAME AS NOW, JUST CHANGES THE WAY CERTAIN POSITIONS ARE FILLED, and a few names.
Relates to the big *Think Tank* so appointed by Pres. John Kennedy and called *The Green Mountain Boys.* While a majority thought GM Boys were for environment study, their real charge was to determine more methods for the Federal Government to circumvent the Constitution to exercise more control over the people.
Now the same charge is down into the toy-airplane recreational activity. As the English politician, Lord Boyd Orr, so stated, "If people have to choose between Freedom and sandwiches, they will take the sandwiches."
JR, did you get a pickle with your sandwich?
07-30-2003 | 12:51 PM
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From: Montgomery, IL
Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by SAPropbuster
Hey Ron,
Why don't you apply for Leader Member so that much is in place so you CAN run for office IF and WHEN you decide??
Hey Ron,
Why don't you apply for Leader Member so that much is in place so you CAN run for office IF and WHEN you decide??
Oh and Horace since you do not like any of Dave Browns ideas (and I'm not saying I do or don't) How would you restructure the current system or what would you do to tweek the current system? We need ideas not just discord during this discussion.
But you do bring up a good point we already have hired someone to handle the day to day operations shouldn't he already have signing authority for up to a certain amount in order to handle simple financial matters? JR can you answer that one?
07-30-2003 | 01:26 PM
#16
"None is so blind as he that will not see"
Originally posted by rsallen13
Food for though, Thanks!
Oh and Horace since you do not like any of Dave Browns ideas (and I'm not saying I do or don't) How would you restructure the current system or what would you do to tweek the current system? We need ideas not just discord during this discussion.
But you do bring up a good point we already have hired someone to handle the day to day operations shouldn't he already have signing authority for up to a certain amount in order to handle simple financial matters? JR can you answer that one?
Food for though, Thanks!
Oh and Horace since you do not like any of Dave Browns ideas (and I'm not saying I do or don't) How would you restructure the current system or what would you do to tweek the current system? We need ideas not just discord during this discussion.
But you do bring up a good point we already have hired someone to handle the day to day operations shouldn't he already have signing authority for up to a certain amount in order to handle simple financial matters? JR can you answer that one?
If there is tweaking needed it would be in the officer nomination area, the operation of the non-related business activity/ies, insurance acquisition, the use of those persons designated "Leader", and national public promotion, a program rather than structure.
That "someone" is a SHE. If as Chief Operating Officer she is too restricted to cover daily business chores, then that is a fault of the EC and that too needs some real "Tweeking"/ tweaking.
The current ED is more than well qualified and able to handle those chores that she is allowed to handle, and/or related to the job.
The answer is less micro management and more responsibility for action.
07-30-2003 | 08:06 PM
#17
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Where should the AMA be pointed
dumb question:
why is nomination even needed, by committee or otherwise.
why not just have a filing date dead line, and allow any open member to file and run for vp of his district.
no more nominations shenanagians, every name that is on record at the close of business on filing day goes on the ballot, all others must mount a write in campaign.
hell, this certainly could not result in less candidates for office than we are seeing now.
why is nomination even needed, by committee or otherwise.
why not just have a filing date dead line, and allow any open member to file and run for vp of his district.
no more nominations shenanagians, every name that is on record at the close of business on filing day goes on the ballot, all others must mount a write in campaign.
hell, this certainly could not result in less candidates for office than we are seeing now.
07-30-2003 | 08:20 PM
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From: right \'round here someplace
I second that motion
Originally posted by mongo
dumb question:
why is nomination even needed, by committee or otherwise.
why not just have a filing date dead line, and allow any open member to file and run for vp of his district.
no more nominations shenanagians, every name that is on record at the close of business on filing day goes on the ballot, all others must mount a write in campaign.
hell, this certainly could not result in less candidates for office than we are seeing now.
dumb question:
why is nomination even needed, by committee or otherwise.
why not just have a filing date dead line, and allow any open member to file and run for vp of his district.
no more nominations shenanagians, every name that is on record at the close of business on filing day goes on the ballot, all others must mount a write in campaign.
hell, this certainly could not result in less candidates for office than we are seeing now.
Great Idea! That would put an end to all this B.S. from the peanut gallery.
Mongo for D-8 vp!
07-31-2003 | 04:12 AM
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From: Perry,
OK
Where should the AMA be pointed
A lot of the problems we are experiencing with the AMA simply boils down to a lack of involvment on the local level.....those people that choose to actually talk to the EC members do succeed in influencing decisions....(imagine that)....we might look at the American Radio Relay League and their Field Organization as a pattern to get more folks involved.....part of the reason some folks don't get involved, is that there is not a way to be involved locally except thru their local club. The ARRL has section managers that coordinate the section field organization. The field organization consists of positions like, Public Information Officer (my position), district Emergency Coordinator, Local Government Liason, Affiliated Club Coordinator, State Government Liason, etc. These types of positions would be very helpful to any district, especially if you break each district up into sections...we already have Associate VP's, just get one from each section in the district and build the field organiztion. Wouldn't it be wonderful if each section(state) could have a person that could interface with the state government, or like in Oklahoma, if there were 5 or 6 local government liasons that would have at least a symbolance of credibility with local governments, because they represent the AMA and would be a local voice to help aquire and maintain flying sites??? Just another idea.
Kevin O'Dell
Kevin O'Dell
07-31-2003 | 05:43 AM
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From: LA,TX,MS,AL
Where should the AMA be pointed
Instead of a 4 month old "what happened to last years money report" why not a month by month updated budget report on where they want/will to spend the money.
If you don't have one of these for every month lord help the financial situation at the AMA.
As a newcommer to the hobby I can tell you 90% of the people who go out to the club twice a month to fly (I would guess this is a majority of AMA members) have no clue what's really going on. If people saw a financial report when they filled out thier application things might change.
As it is now your not allowed to even bring up change in the AMA at our club because they don't want the "insurance" ride to ever go away. The AMA has exactly ZERO to do with my club other than the insurance - that's all we ever hear.
First thing they tell new people at both local clubs is "Just join the AMA for the insurance and throw away the magazine" and "You'll never get anything out of the AMA other than insurance so just accept that".
Isn't that sad...
If you don't have one of these for every month lord help the financial situation at the AMA.
As a newcommer to the hobby I can tell you 90% of the people who go out to the club twice a month to fly (I would guess this is a majority of AMA members) have no clue what's really going on. If people saw a financial report when they filled out thier application things might change.
As it is now your not allowed to even bring up change in the AMA at our club because they don't want the "insurance" ride to ever go away. The AMA has exactly ZERO to do with my club other than the insurance - that's all we ever hear.
First thing they tell new people at both local clubs is "Just join the AMA for the insurance and throw away the magazine" and "You'll never get anything out of the AMA other than insurance so just accept that".
Isn't that sad...
07-31-2003 | 11:51 AM
#21
My Feedback: (3)
Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by Borzak
SNIP
As it is now your not allowed to even bring up change in the AMA at our club because they don't want the "insurance" ride to ever go away. The AMA has exactly ZERO to do with my club other than the insurance - that's all we ever hear.
First thing they tell new people at both local clubs is "Just join the AMA for the insurance and throw away the magazine" and "You'll never get anything out of the AMA other than insurance so just accept that".
Isn't that sad...
SNIP
As it is now your not allowed to even bring up change in the AMA at our club because they don't want the "insurance" ride to ever go away. The AMA has exactly ZERO to do with my club other than the insurance - that's all we ever hear.
First thing they tell new people at both local clubs is "Just join the AMA for the insurance and throw away the magazine" and "You'll never get anything out of the AMA other than insurance so just accept that".
Isn't that sad...
07-31-2003 | 01:47 PM
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From: Tularosa,
NM
Where should the AMA be pointed
Well, the fix it list is certianly filled with great Ideas!!
only problem I see is to many great ideas,
could it be narrowed so that it can actually be effectively worked towards?
one of the fudimental facts of change is too many spread the amount of energy needed to a very thin level, just a simple fact !!!
too many Irons in the fire means nothing ever really gets done,
wouldnt serveral of the Issues go away simply by increaseing the communication level of those who are now accountable?
and how do we do that ? by electing DVP's that are interested in communication and then by the AMA members in a voice asking for the information .
complacency on the member level is what has allowed unfettered abuse of the system ,change that circumstance change the other.
begin by raising interest at club level of what the AMA is and then make it what we want by numbers.
Highlander
only problem I see is to many great ideas,
could it be narrowed so that it can actually be effectively worked towards?
one of the fudimental facts of change is too many spread the amount of energy needed to a very thin level, just a simple fact !!!
too many Irons in the fire means nothing ever really gets done,
wouldnt serveral of the Issues go away simply by increaseing the communication level of those who are now accountable?
and how do we do that ? by electing DVP's that are interested in communication and then by the AMA members in a voice asking for the information .
complacency on the member level is what has allowed unfettered abuse of the system ,change that circumstance change the other.
begin by raising interest at club level of what the AMA is and then make it what we want by numbers.
Highlander
07-31-2003 | 02:33 PM
#23
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From: Newberry, FL
The first order of priority
In fixing the AMA we have to first get the mindset of many of the EC members, including the President's, changed . . . That the modelers on the Internet are just a bunch of rabble rousers with nothing better to do.
The mission is to convince them is that until the AMA has their own forum, run by appointed AMA volunteers with guidelines that are enforced, that the lists like this can be a valuable sounding board for them and a place for them to answer the questions and concerns. They all have AVPs (except the Pres and EVP) one of which would be designated the Internet "PR" man for the District if the VP isn't comfortable doing it himself.
You will have VPs, which the last thing they want is to be questioned or challenged in public on any point, that will feel that it is in their best interest to stonewall the Internet "riff-raff". It has worked up until now - but as the Internet becomes more main stream will this attitude continue to serve them? . . . . Sooner or later the "Internet active" modelers reach a level where they will have an influence on elections.
You can only look to District V - in the thread;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php
s=&threadid=991449&forumid=211
to see an example. A VP gives it away that he is lurking here, and now is deluged with questions he seems to refuse to address.
District V will fix their problem in 2004 and challenges the members of other districts to do the same if they perceive they have a problem when their VP comes up for reelection..
The mission is to convince them is that until the AMA has their own forum, run by appointed AMA volunteers with guidelines that are enforced, that the lists like this can be a valuable sounding board for them and a place for them to answer the questions and concerns. They all have AVPs (except the Pres and EVP) one of which would be designated the Internet "PR" man for the District if the VP isn't comfortable doing it himself.
You will have VPs, which the last thing they want is to be questioned or challenged in public on any point, that will feel that it is in their best interest to stonewall the Internet "riff-raff". It has worked up until now - but as the Internet becomes more main stream will this attitude continue to serve them? . . . . Sooner or later the "Internet active" modelers reach a level where they will have an influence on elections.
You can only look to District V - in the thread;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php
s=&threadid=991449&forumid=211
to see an example. A VP gives it away that he is lurking here, and now is deluged with questions he seems to refuse to address.
District V will fix their problem in 2004 and challenges the members of other districts to do the same if they perceive they have a problem when their VP comes up for reelection..
07-31-2003 | 10:11 PM
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From: LA,TX,MS,AL
Where should the AMA be pointed
Originally posted by Jim Branaum
It is amazing how many places I have heard that same story from. Yes, it is sad and we need to chage it. MODELING needs to be presented to the public in a better light and drag the AMA along with it as part of the party. We have a lot of work to do. . .
It is amazing how many places I have heard that same story from. Yes, it is sad and we need to chage it. MODELING needs to be presented to the public in a better light and drag the AMA along with it as part of the party. We have a lot of work to do. . .
General consensus was just let it ride as is till the club can find another form of insurance as that's all the club gets out of it currently. We do no events like racing/pattern flying etc...
I asked about the upcoming election and everyone just blew it off "as if it matters".
07-31-2003 | 10:43 PM
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From: Corona, CA,
Where should the AMA be pointed
Several specific items.
1. If I led anyone to the conclusion that Dave Brown was claiming the ideas he floated out were his and his alone, that is erroneous.
2. We used to have more than three candidates. We also had run-off elections. As Red has often posted, a large number of contests are run un-opposed. The reasoning for limiting the number of nominees on the ballot and going to a plurality was simple. It costs less. Unfortunately, it appears that unintended consequences have caused unforeseen problems.
3. My wife is a financial analyst for a large company. As Abel pointed out, he as a project manager, has to get his reports in within 30 days. That's normal. Then all of those reports have 30 additional days to be rolled into a divison report. The accouants then require an additional 30 days to verify all of the information and roll it into a financial statement. Then it goes to the auditors. I don't mean to equate the AMA to that size of organization, but, the one thing I am sure of is that it could be done quicker if more people were in the process. That means more money spent on salaries. Again, this may not be the case with the AMA, but, without knowing, it is impossible to be sure how long it could/should take. The question becomes how much of your dues should be spent on expediency. I doubt that the AMA is going to make public unaudited interim reports. Again, for the 2-3 % of the membership that cares, how much is it worth. I don't have the answer, just the question. IF you could put together a special section in AMA with the Financial Statement for $1 each, it would cost roughly $150,000. (The current one is 20 pages in length.) I doubt such an insert could cost so little. How much is it worth?
4. In my opinion, DB's ideas are worthy of discussion, as well as any other ideas developed in the thread. There are major changes in there somewhere. For anyone to throw darts at the current structure, then say there is nothing wrong with the current structure, is a mistake, in my opinion.
5. There is a by-laws committee, chaired by Rich Hanson D 10, that is trying to put together a new set of by-laws for consideration by the EC and ultimately by the LM's. It has not been and will not be a quick process.
This thread was started with the idea of developing membership concerns and developing ways to deal with them. If you think the AMA is broke or headed in the wrong direction, and can be specific, or you think not, please post your thoughts. Also post any answers you may have to the concerns of others. Don't let one person, or group of persons throw a bucket of water on the concept in this thread.
JR
1. If I led anyone to the conclusion that Dave Brown was claiming the ideas he floated out were his and his alone, that is erroneous.
2. We used to have more than three candidates. We also had run-off elections. As Red has often posted, a large number of contests are run un-opposed. The reasoning for limiting the number of nominees on the ballot and going to a plurality was simple. It costs less. Unfortunately, it appears that unintended consequences have caused unforeseen problems.
3. My wife is a financial analyst for a large company. As Abel pointed out, he as a project manager, has to get his reports in within 30 days. That's normal. Then all of those reports have 30 additional days to be rolled into a divison report. The accouants then require an additional 30 days to verify all of the information and roll it into a financial statement. Then it goes to the auditors. I don't mean to equate the AMA to that size of organization, but, the one thing I am sure of is that it could be done quicker if more people were in the process. That means more money spent on salaries. Again, this may not be the case with the AMA, but, without knowing, it is impossible to be sure how long it could/should take. The question becomes how much of your dues should be spent on expediency. I doubt that the AMA is going to make public unaudited interim reports. Again, for the 2-3 % of the membership that cares, how much is it worth. I don't have the answer, just the question. IF you could put together a special section in AMA with the Financial Statement for $1 each, it would cost roughly $150,000. (The current one is 20 pages in length.) I doubt such an insert could cost so little. How much is it worth?
4. In my opinion, DB's ideas are worthy of discussion, as well as any other ideas developed in the thread. There are major changes in there somewhere. For anyone to throw darts at the current structure, then say there is nothing wrong with the current structure, is a mistake, in my opinion.
5. There is a by-laws committee, chaired by Rich Hanson D 10, that is trying to put together a new set of by-laws for consideration by the EC and ultimately by the LM's. It has not been and will not be a quick process.
This thread was started with the idea of developing membership concerns and developing ways to deal with them. If you think the AMA is broke or headed in the wrong direction, and can be specific, or you think not, please post your thoughts. Also post any answers you may have to the concerns of others. Don't let one person, or group of persons throw a bucket of water on the concept in this thread.
JR
