An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
10-18-2010 | 07:29 PM
#26
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From: San Antonio,
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RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Tinner-
please tell me you answered her
"Because the owner/operator of that housingtract airstrip invited him to,
and JUST gave him the greenlight to start his demonstration"
You did tell your wife that, right?
...
BKD
I care.
Maybe the FAA/NTSB might care what that licensed GA pilot was doing right after seeing the crowd:
over and over we have talked about this reg as it MIGHT apply to models,
but I dont think anyone here believes it DONT apply to fs GA aircraft.
As such, ONE of your examples (landing) would allow him low,
but I just dont see 'Hotdogging Smokey Hispeed Buzz' or bakingBrownies
as being allowed to be done a dozen yards above the known crowd.
( and do recall the fs pilot allegedly claimed he not part of this 'show' going on, right,
that he was just returning from a different airport.)
There are no innocent parties in this one.
Most will say the same thing my wife said when I showed her the video, "Why was that guy flying his model over the real planes runway"?
"Because the owner/operator of that housingtract airstrip invited him to,
and JUST gave him the greenlight to start his demonstration"
You did tell your wife that, right?
...
BKD
I don't care if he was setting up for a landing, doing a smoke on pass, or putting brownies in the oven.
Maybe the FAA/NTSB might care what that licensed GA pilot was doing right after seeing the crowd:
Sec. 91.119
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
but I dont think anyone here believes it DONT apply to fs GA aircraft.
As such, ONE of your examples (landing) would allow him low,
but I just dont see 'Hotdogging Smokey Hispeed Buzz' or bakingBrownies
as being allowed to be done a dozen yards above the known crowd.
( and do recall the fs pilot allegedly claimed he not part of this 'show' going on, right,
that he was just returning from a different airport.)
There are no innocent parties in this one.
10-18-2010 | 07:53 PM
#28
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Let's see ... we got two Federal Agencies, The NTSB and the FAA. Both having some police powers, and the authority to shut down an airport. Then there is the puny AMA without any authority to do anything. The AMA can only listen and follow. The AMA has no influence on anything the FAA and NTSB do. The FAA and NTSB laugh at the AMA.
So, no matter what the AMA or its members think, it is irrevelant. Only the FAA and NTSB will be heard on this incident.
But for the rest of us, Rich summed it up pretty well by writing this;
General Item #2 of the 2010 AMA Safety Code states, “I will yield the right-of-way to man-carrying aircraft and will see and avoid all aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate.â€
A strong argument can be made that this was clearly a situation where the use of a spotter was appropriate. In this instance the noisy environment created by the hovering RC model and sole reliance on the air boss to maintain separation between the aircraft resulted in the RC pilot being unaware of the approaching full-scale traffic.
Another contributing factor in this incident was the absence of a delegated lead to manage the aeromodeling activity. The fly-in was not sanctioned, so there was no designated Contest Director. The club did not assign a lead individual to oversee the RC operations, and the overall aeromodeling activity was placed under the direction of the HOA president. Had there been a designated leader overseeing aeromodeling activity, the decision to allow concurrent operations may have been reconsidered.
So, no matter what the AMA or its members think, it is irrevelant. Only the FAA and NTSB will be heard on this incident.
But for the rest of us, Rich summed it up pretty well by writing this;
General Item #2 of the 2010 AMA Safety Code states, “I will yield the right-of-way to man-carrying aircraft and will see and avoid all aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate.â€
A strong argument can be made that this was clearly a situation where the use of a spotter was appropriate. In this instance the noisy environment created by the hovering RC model and sole reliance on the air boss to maintain separation between the aircraft resulted in the RC pilot being unaware of the approaching full-scale traffic.
Another contributing factor in this incident was the absence of a delegated lead to manage the aeromodeling activity. The fly-in was not sanctioned, so there was no designated Contest Director. The club did not assign a lead individual to oversee the RC operations, and the overall aeromodeling activity was placed under the direction of the HOA president. Had there been a designated leader overseeing aeromodeling activity, the decision to allow concurrent operations may have been reconsidered.
10-18-2010 | 08:06 PM
#31
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: jeffEE
never mind. I found it. What was the RC pilot doing walking around his aircraft while it was in the air AND on an active runway?
never mind. I found it. What was the RC pilot doing walking around his aircraft while it was in the air AND on an active runway?
10-18-2010 | 08:14 PM
#32
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From: San Antonio,
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RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Because he is an idiot with an attitude.
10-18-2010 | 08:34 PM
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From: FrederickMD
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Kid - I can understand why you care about the pilots intention. For me, the deciding factor was that the biplane had already made one pass and was circling around to (fill in the blank). The correct decision (admittedly in hindsight) was for the RC pilot to land and clear the runway after the first pass. Thats why I say I don't care what the pilot was doing on the second pass.
I have to admit I don't know how the FAA interprets the section of the regulation you quote.
Brad
I have to admit I don't know how the FAA interprets the section of the regulation you quote.
Brad
10-18-2010 | 09:33 PM
#35
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: bkdavy
Kid - I can understand why you care about the pilots intention. For me, the deciding factor was that the biplane had already made one pass and was circling around to (fill in the blank). The correct decision (admittedly in hindsight) was for the RC pilot to land and clear the runway after the first pass. Thats why I say I don't care what the pilot was doing on the second pass.
I have to admit I don't know how the FAA interprets the section of the regulation you quote.
Brad
Kid - I can understand why you care about the pilots intention. For me, the deciding factor was that the biplane had already made one pass and was circling around to (fill in the blank). The correct decision (admittedly in hindsight) was for the RC pilot to land and clear the runway after the first pass. Thats why I say I don't care what the pilot was doing on the second pass.
I have to admit I don't know how the FAA interprets the section of the regulation you quote.
Brad
down the runway.
10-18-2010 | 09:46 PM
#36
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: ira d
If memory serves me correctly the full scale pilot was in radio contact with the air boss and had told him he was doing a go around but instead made a hi speed pass
down the runway.
ORIGINAL: bkdavy
Kid - I can understand why you care about the pilots intention.
Kid - I can understand why you care about the pilots intention.
down the runway.
10-18-2010 | 10:31 PM
#37
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
When I fly at the airport, small grass field, unimproved, It has Always been a rule for all of us "whenever there is a full size plane around We land, whether it is flying at 3000 ft or more, or flying around a couple miles out, Doesn't matter, if its in sight, land it. Their has been a few times over the years when home builts and other small planes have landed while we were at the field. Do not understand why there was a model airplane flying at the time with full scale aircraft in the area. No matter what it is the model aircraft's pilot responsibility to be aware of the surroundings.
10-18-2010 | 11:10 PM
#38
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RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
I dont know who is gonna come outta this one the dirtiest,
but aint nobody should come outta this one clean.
A whole lotta bad choices from a lotta folks added up to what happened
So right there most of the fallout is NOT on the modeler.
but aint nobody should come outta this one clean.
A whole lotta bad choices from a lotta folks added up to what happened
Now, the FS pilot knew something was going on there, and he made more than one pass, and it seems clear that he was showboating himself. So, he was taking his chances, and the odds caught up with him. He wins only by being the one who is less in the wrong and the one who had the right of way and who owned the airspace. He can't lay claim to making a single good choice. But he's far from being alone in that respect.
The event planners were the first dominoes in the line to fall.
~ Jim ~
10-18-2010 | 11:59 PM
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From: littleton,
CO
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
I live here and am a little curious please send both the Aircraft and the models pilots info to me and I will give them a call and ask.
ORIGINAL: Oberst
An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
By Rich Hanson, AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs Representative
On Saturday August 14 there was an unfortunate mishap involving a full-scale, home-built biplane and a 43% radio controlled model aircraft. There was a number of accounts of this incident on YouTube and several of Internet forums. Much of the information was largely speculative and to some extent inaccurate. AMA does not routinely investigate model aircraft mishaps, but this was a very unusual incident with implications that could significantly affect the hobby. Within days, as AMA’s government and regulatory Affairs representative, I was on-site to gather the facts and to interview the participants. As they say, the following is the rest of the story…
Incident background
This incident occurred at a small private airport in the Denver, Colorado, area. The airfield is designed as a residence airpark and is owned and operated by a homeowners association (HOA). On the date of the incident the association hosted a by-invitation-only full-scale fly-in as a fundraiser for a local children’s hospital, and the local model aircraft club was invited to participate by exhibiting its members’ aircraft and putting on a midday RC flight demonstration. Coincidentally, the local AMA club had a community event of its own scheduled for the same day, and it was decided to send a portion of the club members to the HOA event while leaving the remaining members to participate in the club’s “Kids Fly Free Day†at the local flying site.
The president of the HOA is an inactive modeler and past member of AMA and served as the event director and air boss for the flight demonstrations. During the course of the event it was decided to allow concurrent full-scale and model aircraft operations. At least one of the modelers present cautioned against allowing concurrent ops; nevertheless, the air boss elected to proceed by communicating with the full-scale aircraft through the use of a handheld transceiver while standing at the runway’s edge, to verbally communicate with the RC pilots during the flight demonstrations.
The RC aircraft involved was a 43% AJ Slick powered by a Fox 200cc gas engine. The RC pilot was asked to provide a 3-D flight demonstration, and on this occasion the flight demo was performed without a dedicated spotter; the air boss was relied on to provide separation from any full-scale aircraft in the area.
3D Hobbies’ 126-inch AJ Slick w/Fox 200cc Gas Engine
The full-scale aircraft was a home-built Acroduster Too SA750 biplane based at the airpark. It had been flown to another event earlier in the day and was returning to base at the time of the incident.
Acroduster Too SA750 – N28KT (Lycoming IO-540)
What happened that day
At approximately 11:00a.m., the SA750 arrived at the airpark and made a low pass down the runway. The RC pilot was performing a demonstration flight at the time and was directed to move his model away from the runway as the biplane made its low pass. The biplane then flew around the traffic pattern and was presumably setting up for a landing. The RC pilot brought his aircraft back to the runway and continued his 3-D (hover) demonstration. As the biplane came around, the pilot apparently aborted his approach and decided to make a second smoke-on, low pass down the runway.
Not realizing the biplane’s intention, the air boss was unable to warn the RC pilot until moments before impact. The RC pilot hovered his model farther down the runway and increased his altitude to approximately 30-50 feet. At the last moment the biplane pilot attempted to turn right but was unable to avoid the model airplane. The biplane struck the model with its left lower wing, causing damage to the wing’s leading edge. The RC aircraft was severed between the cockpit and the empennage, fell to the ground, and was completely destroyed. The biplane pilot was able to recover his aircraft and return for a landing without injury or further damage. The RC pilot later stated that he did not hear the air boss and was unaware that the biplane was making a second pass.
Investigation
In reviewing the incident, a number of questions arise regarding the actions and decisions of the full-scale pilot; nonetheless, these are probably best addressed and resolved by the Federal Aviation Administration. However, in terms of the RC activity there are number of lessons to be learned and a few takeaway items that can be applied to improving the safety of future aeromodeling operations.
The single largest contributing factor in this mishap was the decision to allow concurrent full-scale and RC operations. There are few, if any, benefits in allowing concurrent ops, because the risks can be substantial. That’s not to say you can’t have both full-scale and RC airplanes participating in the same event. However, the flight operations should be separated into blocks of time for the RC activity and for the full-scale activity. There should also be clear coordination and positive communication with the air boss/event director at all times.
The decision to perform the RC flight demonstration without a dedicated spotter also played a significant role in this mishap. General Item #2 of the 2010 AMA Safety Code states, “I will yield the right-of-way to man-carrying aircraft and will see and avoid all aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate.â€
Lessons for all
A strong argument can be made that this was clearly a situation where the use of a spotter was appropriate. In this instance the noisy environment created by the hovering RC model and sole reliance
on the air boss to maintain separation between the aircraft resulted in the RC pilot being unaware of the approaching full-scale traffic.
Another contributing factor in this incident was the absence of a delegated lead to manage the aeromodeling activity. The fly-in was not sanctioned, so there was no designated Contest Director. The club did not assign a lead individual to oversee the RC operations, and the overall aeromodeling activity was placed under the direction of the HOA president. Had there been a designated leader overseeing aeromodeling activity, the decision to allow concurrent operations may have been reconsidered.
There has been a fair amount of finger-pointing as a result of this incident; however, there’s little to be gained by assigning blame. It’s extremely fortunate that the outcome of this incident was not more severe, and it’s important that we learn from this experience and apply the lessons toward ensuring the safety of future aeromodeling operations.
Oh boy, here we go again.
Pete
An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
By Rich Hanson, AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs Representative
On Saturday August 14 there was an unfortunate mishap involving a full-scale, home-built biplane and a 43% radio controlled model aircraft. There was a number of accounts of this incident on YouTube and several of Internet forums. Much of the information was largely speculative and to some extent inaccurate. AMA does not routinely investigate model aircraft mishaps, but this was a very unusual incident with implications that could significantly affect the hobby. Within days, as AMA’s government and regulatory Affairs representative, I was on-site to gather the facts and to interview the participants. As they say, the following is the rest of the story…
Incident background
This incident occurred at a small private airport in the Denver, Colorado, area. The airfield is designed as a residence airpark and is owned and operated by a homeowners association (HOA). On the date of the incident the association hosted a by-invitation-only full-scale fly-in as a fundraiser for a local children’s hospital, and the local model aircraft club was invited to participate by exhibiting its members’ aircraft and putting on a midday RC flight demonstration. Coincidentally, the local AMA club had a community event of its own scheduled for the same day, and it was decided to send a portion of the club members to the HOA event while leaving the remaining members to participate in the club’s “Kids Fly Free Day†at the local flying site.
The president of the HOA is an inactive modeler and past member of AMA and served as the event director and air boss for the flight demonstrations. During the course of the event it was decided to allow concurrent full-scale and model aircraft operations. At least one of the modelers present cautioned against allowing concurrent ops; nevertheless, the air boss elected to proceed by communicating with the full-scale aircraft through the use of a handheld transceiver while standing at the runway’s edge, to verbally communicate with the RC pilots during the flight demonstrations.
The RC aircraft involved was a 43% AJ Slick powered by a Fox 200cc gas engine. The RC pilot was asked to provide a 3-D flight demonstration, and on this occasion the flight demo was performed without a dedicated spotter; the air boss was relied on to provide separation from any full-scale aircraft in the area.
3D Hobbies’ 126-inch AJ Slick w/Fox 200cc Gas Engine
The full-scale aircraft was a home-built Acroduster Too SA750 biplane based at the airpark. It had been flown to another event earlier in the day and was returning to base at the time of the incident.
Acroduster Too SA750 – N28KT (Lycoming IO-540)
What happened that day
At approximately 11:00a.m., the SA750 arrived at the airpark and made a low pass down the runway. The RC pilot was performing a demonstration flight at the time and was directed to move his model away from the runway as the biplane made its low pass. The biplane then flew around the traffic pattern and was presumably setting up for a landing. The RC pilot brought his aircraft back to the runway and continued his 3-D (hover) demonstration. As the biplane came around, the pilot apparently aborted his approach and decided to make a second smoke-on, low pass down the runway.
Not realizing the biplane’s intention, the air boss was unable to warn the RC pilot until moments before impact. The RC pilot hovered his model farther down the runway and increased his altitude to approximately 30-50 feet. At the last moment the biplane pilot attempted to turn right but was unable to avoid the model airplane. The biplane struck the model with its left lower wing, causing damage to the wing’s leading edge. The RC aircraft was severed between the cockpit and the empennage, fell to the ground, and was completely destroyed. The biplane pilot was able to recover his aircraft and return for a landing without injury or further damage. The RC pilot later stated that he did not hear the air boss and was unaware that the biplane was making a second pass.
Investigation
In reviewing the incident, a number of questions arise regarding the actions and decisions of the full-scale pilot; nonetheless, these are probably best addressed and resolved by the Federal Aviation Administration. However, in terms of the RC activity there are number of lessons to be learned and a few takeaway items that can be applied to improving the safety of future aeromodeling operations.
The single largest contributing factor in this mishap was the decision to allow concurrent full-scale and RC operations. There are few, if any, benefits in allowing concurrent ops, because the risks can be substantial. That’s not to say you can’t have both full-scale and RC airplanes participating in the same event. However, the flight operations should be separated into blocks of time for the RC activity and for the full-scale activity. There should also be clear coordination and positive communication with the air boss/event director at all times.
The decision to perform the RC flight demonstration without a dedicated spotter also played a significant role in this mishap. General Item #2 of the 2010 AMA Safety Code states, “I will yield the right-of-way to man-carrying aircraft and will see and avoid all aircraft, utilizing a spotter when appropriate.â€
Lessons for all
A strong argument can be made that this was clearly a situation where the use of a spotter was appropriate. In this instance the noisy environment created by the hovering RC model and sole reliance
on the air boss to maintain separation between the aircraft resulted in the RC pilot being unaware of the approaching full-scale traffic.
Another contributing factor in this incident was the absence of a delegated lead to manage the aeromodeling activity. The fly-in was not sanctioned, so there was no designated Contest Director. The club did not assign a lead individual to oversee the RC operations, and the overall aeromodeling activity was placed under the direction of the HOA president. Had there been a designated leader overseeing aeromodeling activity, the decision to allow concurrent operations may have been reconsidered.
There has been a fair amount of finger-pointing as a result of this incident; however, there’s little to be gained by assigning blame. It’s extremely fortunate that the outcome of this incident was not more severe, and it’s important that we learn from this experience and apply the lessons toward ensuring the safety of future aeromodeling operations.
Oh boy, here we go again.
Pete
10-19-2010 | 01:40 AM
#40
My Feedback: (84)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
I have to agree with Airplane400’s response to jeffee. It was my first response to the video, and I cannot type what my true feeling are here. This incident gives another reason to hate guys that fly 3D. 3D pilots just hang in the way over the runway, this time it just happened to be a full size active runway. I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ? Sorry I do not see how this made sense.
I watched the video on the Corvette car club web site and I also read news reports and like most reporting everyone puts there spin on it and it never looks good to the public. “Toy airplane hits Full Size plane†No matter what comes out of the investigation the public will never read what officially happened and who was at fault.
The RC pilots that think risky demo flying helps sell the sport to the public will never help us keep fields or our right to fly RC. I think the risky full size flying that we see at air shows also is a bad idea, and it puts that activity at risk also.
Thank God that no one got hurt.
I watched the video on the Corvette car club web site and I also read news reports and like most reporting everyone puts there spin on it and it never looks good to the public. “Toy airplane hits Full Size plane†No matter what comes out of the investigation the public will never read what officially happened and who was at fault.
The RC pilots that think risky demo flying helps sell the sport to the public will never help us keep fields or our right to fly RC. I think the risky full size flying that we see at air shows also is a bad idea, and it puts that activity at risk also.
Thank God that no one got hurt.
10-19-2010 | 04:17 AM
#41
My Feedback: (59)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: 3dsky
I have to agree with Airplane400’s response to jeffee. It was my first response to the video, and I cannot type what my true feeling are here. This incident gives another reason to hate guys that fly 3D. 3D pilots just hang in the way over the runway, this time it just happened to be a full size active runway. I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ? Sorry I do not see how this made sense.
I watched the video on the Corvette car club web site and I also read news reports and like most reporting everyone puts there spin on it and it never looks good to the public. “Toy airplane hits Full Size plane” No matter what comes out of the investigation the public will never read what officially happened and who was at fault.
The RC pilots that think risky demo flying helps sell the sport to the public will never help us keep fields or our right to fly RC. I think the risky full size flying that we see at air shows also is a bad idea, and it puts that activity at risk also.
Thank God that no one got hurt.
I have to agree with Airplane400’s response to jeffee. It was my first response to the video, and I cannot type what my true feeling are here. This incident gives another reason to hate guys that fly 3D. 3D pilots just hang in the way over the runway, this time it just happened to be a full size active runway. I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ? Sorry I do not see how this made sense.
I watched the video on the Corvette car club web site and I also read news reports and like most reporting everyone puts there spin on it and it never looks good to the public. “Toy airplane hits Full Size plane” No matter what comes out of the investigation the public will never read what officially happened and who was at fault.
The RC pilots that think risky demo flying helps sell the sport to the public will never help us keep fields or our right to fly RC. I think the risky full size flying that we see at air shows also is a bad idea, and it puts that activity at risk also.
Thank God that no one got hurt.
<br type="_moz" />
10-19-2010 | 06:09 AM
#42
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: 3dsky
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
After flying a lot now, I can see planes in my extended vision and am aware of much more than when I used to be flying, but I will admit that it is more important to watch your plane and when you are doing acro/3d it is imperative that you watch your plane and not take your eyes off of it. A few moments with your eyes away could result in calamity.
With this in mind, why would it have been the responsibility of the RC pilot to see the other plane? That would be voiding the very thing instructors teach RC pilots.
For me if there were so much confusion that day, I would have not flown, but that is just me. I am very cautious when a lot of chaos is going on and will usually just sit and watch until things calm down some. I have noticed when a lot is going on, that is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
10-19-2010 | 06:27 AM
#43
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From: sheridan,
IN
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I have a comment about this. When I first soloed RC, I had three instructors. One of the constants that was repeated over and over was to ''Keep your eyes on YOUR OWN PLANE and DO NOT LOOK at other planes.'' Even today, this rings in my head it was repeated so much to me and I think it has been a huge help for me to keep my focus on what I am doing.
After flying a lot now, I can see planes in my extended vision and am aware of much more than when I used to be flying, but I will admit that it is more important to watch your plane and when you are doing acro/3d it is imperative that you watch your plane and not take your eyes off of it. A few moments with your eyes away could result in calamity.
With this in mind, why would it have been the responsibility of the RC pilot to see the other plane? That would be voiding the very thing instructors teach RC pilots.
For me if there were so much confusion that day, I would have not flown, but that is just me. I am very cautious when a lot of chaos is going on and will usually just sit and watch until things calm down some. I have noticed when a lot is going on, that is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
ORIGINAL: 3dsky
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
After flying a lot now, I can see planes in my extended vision and am aware of much more than when I used to be flying, but I will admit that it is more important to watch your plane and when you are doing acro/3d it is imperative that you watch your plane and not take your eyes off of it. A few moments with your eyes away could result in calamity.
With this in mind, why would it have been the responsibility of the RC pilot to see the other plane? That would be voiding the very thing instructors teach RC pilots.
For me if there were so much confusion that day, I would have not flown, but that is just me. I am very cautious when a lot of chaos is going on and will usually just sit and watch until things calm down some. I have noticed when a lot is going on, that is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
It's proven fact that under stress, we revert to our training, or if untrained, who knows how we react.
IMO, ultimately it is the event planner, and/or airboss who takes the responsibility, and therefore blame for this.
As for "I do not care what the Air boss said...",
here is a big roll of the eyes for that comment.
10-19-2010 | 06:35 AM
#44
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From: FrederickMD
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Why is everyone ignoring that, according to Rich's investigation, the collision occurred on the 2nd (second) pass made by the biplane. Everyone on the ground had to know the biplane was in the area. Everything after that is intentionally accepting a risk they weren't adequately prepared to handle.
Brad
Brad
10-19-2010 | 06:39 AM
#45
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: bkdavy
Why is everyone ignoring that, according to Rich's investigation, the collision occurred on the 2nd (second) pass made by the biplane. Everyone on the ground had to know the biplane was in the area. Everything after that is intentionally accepting a risk they weren't adequately prepared to handle.
Brad
Why is everyone ignoring that, according to Rich's investigation, the collision occurred on the 2nd (second) pass made by the biplane. Everyone on the ground had to know the biplane was in the area. Everything after that is intentionally accepting a risk they weren't adequately prepared to handle.
Brad
10-19-2010 | 06:42 AM
#46
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RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
I am curious why AMA said or prepared any sort of statement regarding the incident... They should have just kept their yaps shut until the NTSB/FAA completed the investigation and issued a report.
Good luck on getting anyone involved to comment. By now, their lawyers have told them to clamp it shut tight.
Good luck on getting anyone involved to comment. By now, their lawyers have told them to clamp it shut tight.
10-19-2010 | 07:00 AM
#47
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From: Bismarck, ND
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
I am both a full-scale pilot and an rc pilot. I know without any doubt that the FAA is going to find the rc pilot the cause of this incident, guaranteed. It doesn't matter how many times the FS pilot went around the patch, he has the "right of way", so to speak, and it was up to the spotter or air boss to let the rc pilot know where the FS was at all times. To be hovering a 42% right over the runway with a full scale aircraft in the vicinity was just plain dumb. Hope the rc pilot has good insurance, he's going to need it!
All I can say is, it's a good thing the FS wing hit the fuselage and not the engine, had it done so, the wing would have peeled off and then we'd be talking about two people who died in the crash, maybe more killed on the ground.
All I can say is, it's a good thing the FS wing hit the fuselage and not the engine, had it done so, the wing would have peeled off and then we'd be talking about two people who died in the crash, maybe more killed on the ground.
10-19-2010 | 08:10 AM
#48
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From: newbury,
OH
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Tinner-
Most will say the same thing my wife said when I showed her the video, "Why was that guy flying his model over the real planes runway"?
Most will say the same thing my wife said when I showed her the video, "Why was that guy flying his model over the real planes runway"?
KidEpoxy,
please tell me you answered her
"Because the owner/operator of that housingtract airstrip invited him to,
and JUST gave him the greenlight to start his demonstration"
please tell me you answered her
"Because the owner/operator of that housingtract airstrip invited him to,
and JUST gave him the greenlight to start his demonstration"
YOU LAND IMMEDIATELY whenever ANY FS aircraft are in the area. PERIOD, no need for USELESS debate. ESPECIALLY if he had made an earlier (warning?) pass. When a human life is involved there is no reason for an RC model to be flying in its vicinity! And sorry to those that think otherwise.....put your kid or wife in the FS plane and then tell me who was right!!
10-19-2010 | 08:43 AM
#49
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From: Anytown
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
dont think I've seen anyone say the RC pilot refused to yield,
it over and over plays out that he didnt know till it was an emergency
and the way you get outta dodge from a hover is to punch it to foward flight and skeedaddle.
I doubt any 3d pilots first instinct reaction is 'Dump it onto the runway'
when someone yells "Incoming! Clear the Runway NOW!"
The theme of 'aborted landing' comes up a lot,
is the plan to dump a chunky pile of 40% onto a runway while a FS is trying to land on that runway?
"tsk tsk" is that nobody told him there was a FS coming in hot & low till it was too late.
dont think I've seen anyone say the RC pilot refused to yield,
it over and over plays out that he didnt know till it was an emergency
and the way you get outta dodge from a hover is to punch it to foward flight and skeedaddle.
I doubt any 3d pilots first instinct reaction is 'Dump it onto the runway'
when someone yells "Incoming! Clear the Runway NOW!"
The theme of 'aborted landing' comes up a lot,
is the plan to dump a chunky pile of 40% onto a runway while a FS is trying to land on that runway?
"tsk tsk" is that nobody told him there was a FS coming in hot & low till it was too late.
and the way you get outta dodge from a hover is to punch it to foward flight and skeedaddle
Without a doubt the whole situation was a circus and an accident waiting to happen. Even after the incident you had people all over the runway and a FS AT6, prop spinning,preparing to take off.
10-19-2010 | 08:54 AM
#50
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Yes, yes, YES!! Human life over a toy ... no matter how much the toy is worth. Land the toy, or purposely crash the toy into the ground ... just get it out of the way of a full sized plane!!!
