An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
10-22-2010 | 08:25 PM
#201
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
It makes a great deal of difference in whether there was an earlier pass or not!!
but I dont see how it would help anyones case.
If it was a second pass then the fs ABSOLUTELY KNEW there were live people standing on the runway,
yet he forced a second pass "landing" on that runway with people on it? Or even if he says he wasnt actually going to land, it was a low pass, then he again is low buzzing folks he KNEW were standing there
As for the Airboss: The chain of errors on his part is far to long to try to overcome... he's toast any way we slice it.
The RC pilots on the other hand should have known something was not right if there was a low 1st pass and should have been asking folks near him whats up with that fs.... followed by a 'Yikes' and skedaddle off the active when those folks would have told him the fs was coming back around. AC91-57 suggests RCs yield to fs, and the rc did, and have no reason to assume he would not do so again
Second pass?
Importance? yes
Difference? not really
All 3 made mistakes, and that dont change if it was 1st or 2nd pass
10-22-2010 | 08:47 PM
#202
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Basically It is a choice of believing a a bunch of guys on the internet commenting and rehashing comments on a video that was not seen unedited or complete, or a person with ties to the AMA that claims to have spoken first hand with the parties involved. As far as the quotes by the individuals involved, well they are biased parties. Not many people on the internet try to get the full, or real, story and will rant on about what they believe is right or wrong. You just have to find the source that you believe to be most credible and go with it. I will say though if internet forums and Youtube are your only sources then I know a girl in the Mideast that needs help getting her dead parents millions out of the bank, and she will even split it with you.
The only thing certain in all of this is a final ruling will be made by the NTSB, FAA, and probably civil court. The odds are not one of these will be 100% accurate.
P.S. As far as the NTSB and news sources, these were just preliminary and will be amended as more facts come to light. To be honest I still take the final NTSB report with a grain of salt.
The only thing certain in all of this is a final ruling will be made by the NTSB, FAA, and probably civil court. The odds are not one of these will be 100% accurate.P.S. As far as the NTSB and news sources, these were just preliminary and will be amended as more facts come to light. To be honest I still take the final NTSB report with a grain of salt.
10-22-2010 | 09:11 PM
#203
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
10-22-2010 | 09:51 PM
#205
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Yea, he is full of himself too he,he,he...
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
10-22-2010 | 10:44 PM
#206
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: Gooseman240
Well, the poster on youtube is only showing what makes the RC pilot look good. Don't believe everything you watch, sorry bro!!
Ever heard of video editing, can be done quite easily in this situation to sway the feeling to who's fault it is. I am sure the AMA guy ask for the whole thing, not the youtube version.
I am going by what is written here, I am however willing to read what is posted on the AMA site, if you can provide the URL. I will not trust boob tube.
Again, boob tube showed us only the part leading up to the impact, not the initial 2 pases that was stated in the first post. So, if there was another pass before what was showin to the world. The RC pilot is at fault, as the runway was not closed, it was still an active runway, so FS has right of way.
Thanks for making me read the intital statements again, reenforces that RC guy and airboss is in a crap load of trouble.
Well, the poster on youtube is only showing what makes the RC pilot look good. Don't believe everything you watch, sorry bro!!
Ever heard of video editing, can be done quite easily in this situation to sway the feeling to who's fault it is. I am sure the AMA guy ask for the whole thing, not the youtube version.
I am going by what is written here, I am however willing to read what is posted on the AMA site, if you can provide the URL. I will not trust boob tube.
Again, boob tube showed us only the part leading up to the impact, not the initial 2 pases that was stated in the first post. So, if there was another pass before what was showin to the world. The RC pilot is at fault, as the runway was not closed, it was still an active runway, so FS has right of way.
Thanks for making me read the intital statements again, reenforces that RC guy and airboss is in a crap load of trouble.
The rc pilot has been quoted as saying that the impact happened on the first pass of the full scale and I for one believe him but we have yet to here from the
full scale pilot or the air boss. One thing we do know is that the full scale was in radio contact with the air boss who appearently told him there was a rc
plane over the run way, If the full scale had already made previous pass and still entered air space where he did have right of waywhile being in radio
contact with the air boss that only makes it look worse for him.
Also I think we need to look at the fact that full scale planes do not always have the right of way and it is negllgence on their part to enter any air space that it is not
safe to do so.
10-22-2010 | 11:54 PM
#207
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......
~ Jim ~
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......
~ Jim ~
10-23-2010 | 12:04 AM
#208
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Maybe if the Airboss wasnt so far away from the RC pilot
he could have been in better control
He was what... 30yards away?
Look at the 17-21 second mark of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcN-0PikEU
... oops, the guy with the radio talking to the RC pilot aint 30yards away,
its more like 30 INCHES.
No wonder they couldnt communicate.
So the airboss coundnt communicate with the guy standing 30 inches away,
and he couldnt communicate with the guy he was talking to on the radio either [:@]
he could have been in better control
He was what... 30yards away?
Look at the 17-21 second mark of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcN-0PikEU
... oops, the guy with the radio talking to the RC pilot aint 30yards away,
its more like 30 INCHES.
No wonder they couldnt communicate.
So the airboss coundnt communicate with the guy standing 30 inches away,
and he couldnt communicate with the guy he was talking to on the radio either [:@]
10-23-2010 | 06:50 AM
#209
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: sheridan,
IN
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
That's the spirit!
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Yea, he is full of himself too he,he,he...
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
10-23-2010 | 06:56 AM
#210
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
By the tone of voice and mannerisms in the video at 8:21 while saying “ I am no fan of 3d†it is apparent you are indeed against 3D. Your unbiased credibility is zilch...
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......
~ Jim ~
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......
~ Jim ~
~ Jim ~
10-23-2010 | 07:28 AM
#211
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: 804
As soon as the average 3-d plane can be made to take off vertically like a heli, you might then have a point.
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
That's the spirit!
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Yea, he is full of himself too he,he,he...
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
Yeah, it takes AT LEAST 20 feet more runout for them.
What you're saying is that there are no crowds to show off for in your back yard. The rub here is that not all crowds are aching to see your 50CC Yak fly 3D...a good number of the people standing there are justing waiting for that selfish j*rk to land so they can use the airspace. Heli pilots used to think the same thing.
And I assume that you're good enough that once it's in the air, you can fly as well as any sport flyer and actually move it somewhere other than over the runway? Because I've noticed a real problem with 3Der's lacking those simple skills, despite that fact that they often claim to have supreme abilities in the control of their aircraft.
Just for the record, this sport flyer with inferior control abilities could easily have gotten his plane out of the way of the approaching Full-Scale plane in time.
I stand by my video. My fun little segment of self-expression at the end concerning 3D doesn't change anything I said about the two clowns with a handheld radio and an RC Tx in their hands. If you don't like it...make your OWN video!
LOL
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
10-23-2010 | 07:37 AM
#212
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lacona, NY
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Very nice video Jim, well done. I'm a scale pilot and I get a little worried what 3D pilots are going to do at the field, they can be unpredictable at times. I made a film of my Custom Hanger 9 Fokker DVII.
Near the end of the film, I had a electric 3D pilot start doing crazy aerobatics close enough to my plane that I became nervous and I quickly landed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2eSHY4LEwQ
Now, to get back on the subject...
If the FAA and AMA come to agreement if something should be done to prevent this from ever happening again, I don't mind.
But again, if I was that person flying 3D I would have landed right away and got my fanny and plane in a safe area. It's just me- there was no reason for the 3D pilot to keep flying when he first realized there was a FS plane in the area.
It's people who use poor judgement and refuse responsibility for their actions that's going to allow powers that be to take more and more privilages away from us in the end.
As a R/C pilot, I can't always depend on others for safety at FS airshows. I have to be alert and aware of what's going on around me at all times. Again- if I can't then I don't fly.
Pete
Near the end of the film, I had a electric 3D pilot start doing crazy aerobatics close enough to my plane that I became nervous and I quickly landed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2eSHY4LEwQ
Now, to get back on the subject...
If the FAA and AMA come to agreement if something should be done to prevent this from ever happening again, I don't mind.
But again, if I was that person flying 3D I would have landed right away and got my fanny and plane in a safe area. It's just me- there was no reason for the 3D pilot to keep flying when he first realized there was a FS plane in the area.
It's people who use poor judgement and refuse responsibility for their actions that's going to allow powers that be to take more and more privilages away from us in the end.
As a R/C pilot, I can't always depend on others for safety at FS airshows. I have to be alert and aware of what's going on around me at all times. Again- if I can't then I don't fly.
Pete
10-23-2010 | 08:19 AM
#213
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Was this a sanctioned AMA event?
Does it matter?
Were leaflets passed out to all participants including spectators, explaining how important it is to clear a field or runway when a pilot makes an approach to land his aircraft?
Did any individual or principal have a bull horn?
Active PA system?
I read that two passes were made. But this isn't really an issue.
Here's what everyone is missing or not giving enough thought to, and the conversation should be focused on this.
With that pilots first pass, the field and runway should have been cleared immediately. And without question or hesitation.
You would have to be a pilot, with training, to really understand this. Probably "one" of the reasons the conversation is all over the place.
10-23-2010 | 08:21 AM
#214
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: sheridan,
IN
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Yeah, it takes AT LEAST 20 feet more runout for them.
What you're saying is that there are no crowds to show off for in your back yard. The rub here is that not all crowds are aching to see your 50CC Yak fly 3D...a good number of the people standing there are justing waiting for that selfish j*rk to land so they can use the airspace. Heli pilots used to think the same thing.
And I assume that you're good enough that once it's in the air, you can fly as well as any sport flyer and actually move it somewhere other than over the runway? Because I've noticed a real problem with 3Der's lacking those simple skills, despite that fact that they often claim to have supreme abilities in the control of their aircraft.
Just for the record, this sport flyer with inferior control abilities could easily have gotten his plane out of the way of the approaching Full-Scale plane in time.
I stand by my video. My fun little segment of self-expression at the end concerning 3D doesn't change anything I said about the two clowns with a handheld radio and an RC Tx in their hands. If you don't like it...make your OWN video!
LOL
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
ORIGINAL: 804
As soon as the average 3-d plane can be made to take off vertically like a heli, you might then have a point.
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
That's the spirit!
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Yea, he is full of himself too he,he,he...
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Here ya go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4cqG7-7Vfk
Enjoy! The guy likes to talk. LOL
~ Jim ~
Great video tho!
Helps to understand your position given that you clearly admitted to being anti-3D. Learned something from that! LOL. Now I know to tune you out in regards to any fair discussion here.
It should be noted that I'm not AGAINST 3D......I'm against giving 3D accomodation that was denied for helis, especially since the restrictions on Helis were based on them creating the same sort of havoc that the 3D's presently do. The helis were, for good reasons, restricted to their own areas away from the runways and many started their own fields or fly at fields better suited to helis than planes. Yet, no impetus has been given for 3Ders to do the same. The different way they use the sky inherently creates a dangerous situation when combined with standard flying, unsafe to be certain. Just like helis. But take them off to the side, out of the pattern they disdain so much, and they're not that dangerous.
What's unfair about seeking safer flying conditions and advocating the adjustments that could change the inevitable, ever-growing public impression that our hobby is unsafe?
Just saying this, and it's very simple: We could do all of this a lot better.
~ Jim ~
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
Yeah, it takes AT LEAST 20 feet more runout for them.
What you're saying is that there are no crowds to show off for in your back yard. The rub here is that not all crowds are aching to see your 50CC Yak fly 3D...a good number of the people standing there are justing waiting for that selfish j*rk to land so they can use the airspace. Heli pilots used to think the same thing.
And I assume that you're good enough that once it's in the air, you can fly as well as any sport flyer and actually move it somewhere other than over the runway? Because I've noticed a real problem with 3Der's lacking those simple skills, despite that fact that they often claim to have supreme abilities in the control of their aircraft.
Just for the record, this sport flyer with inferior control abilities could easily have gotten his plane out of the way of the approaching Full-Scale plane in time.
I stand by my video. My fun little segment of self-expression at the end concerning 3D doesn't change anything I said about the two clowns with a handheld radio and an RC Tx in their hands. If you don't like it...make your OWN video!
LOL
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
If you did, you wouldn't be saying the crapola you are saying.
10-23-2010 | 08:25 AM
#215
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: sheridan,
IN
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: Avaiojet
Was this a sanctioned AMA event?
Does it matter?
Were leaflets passed out to all participants including spectators, explaining how important it is to clear a field or runway when a pilot makes an approach to land his aircraft?
Did any individual or principal have a bull horn?
Active PA system?
I read that two passes were made. But this isn't really an issue.
Here's what everyone is missing or not giving enough thought to, and the conversation should be focused on this.
With that pilots first pass, the field and runway should have been cleared immediately. And without question or hesitation.
You would have to be a pilot, with training, to really understand this. Probably ''one'' of the reasons the conversation is all over the place.
Was this a sanctioned AMA event?
Does it matter?
Were leaflets passed out to all participants including spectators, explaining how important it is to clear a field or runway when a pilot makes an approach to land his aircraft?
Did any individual or principal have a bull horn?
Active PA system?
I read that two passes were made. But this isn't really an issue.
Here's what everyone is missing or not giving enough thought to, and the conversation should be focused on this.
With that pilots first pass, the field and runway should have been cleared immediately. And without question or hesitation.
You would have to be a pilot, with training, to really understand this. Probably ''one'' of the reasons the conversation is all over the place.
All the Monday morning quarterbacks here that think they know exactly what they would have done in any of these folk's shoes
are full of it.
10-23-2010 | 08:38 AM
#216
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: newbury,
OH
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
804,
As soon as the average 3-d plane can be made to take off vertically like a heli, you might then have a point.
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
As soon as the average 3-d plane can be made to take off vertically like a heli, you might then have a point.
I can fly my heli in my back yard. Not so my 50cc 3-d Yak.
The point I try to make is it doesn't matter who is at fault. We, as modelers, are lucky not one was injured because the general public will side with the FS every time because in the publics eye we are flying "toys".
10-23-2010 | 08:38 AM
#217
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Excellent video! You did a great job of flying her. Loved the pilot's head turning at the end. I'd have put that at the beginning, just to draw them in.....(it's the novelist in me....draw them in, draw them in...) but it made for a nice ending.
I agree that the RC pilot in the collision should have had it on the ground immediately, that's also what I would have done. Full-Scale pilots can't know what we're doing, and vice-versa. At our Full-Scale field where we fly, if a plane should arrive unexpectedly and we cannot get out of the way, there is no choice; we are to pound it into the ground if we have to so the runway is clear. Otherwise, with the same amount of warning that we saw given in the video, we would move way over to the far side and circle there. Not a paltry 20 feet off the runway.
Pretty much what we saw happen there was people treating a Full-Scale airport and runway as though planes don't land there. And they were doing it during a Full-Scale fly-in!
Now, that video was taken right at the time of the collision, so I can't state with certainty that the 3D pilot never took responsibility for his actions...or lack thereof. He might have thought about it and thought, "I shouldn't have listened to that guy, I should have put it on the ground right away. I knew better." I hope that was the case, but even if it was, there are a hundred idiots waiting in line to cause the next crash due to negligence and incompetence.
But I'll make a video about them when their fifteen minutes of fame arrives....
Beautiful Bipe, Pete.
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
I agree that the RC pilot in the collision should have had it on the ground immediately, that's also what I would have done. Full-Scale pilots can't know what we're doing, and vice-versa. At our Full-Scale field where we fly, if a plane should arrive unexpectedly and we cannot get out of the way, there is no choice; we are to pound it into the ground if we have to so the runway is clear. Otherwise, with the same amount of warning that we saw given in the video, we would move way over to the far side and circle there. Not a paltry 20 feet off the runway.
Pretty much what we saw happen there was people treating a Full-Scale airport and runway as though planes don't land there. And they were doing it during a Full-Scale fly-in!
Now, that video was taken right at the time of the collision, so I can't state with certainty that the 3D pilot never took responsibility for his actions...or lack thereof. He might have thought about it and thought, "I shouldn't have listened to that guy, I should have put it on the ground right away. I knew better." I hope that was the case, but even if it was, there are a hundred idiots waiting in line to cause the next crash due to negligence and incompetence.
But I'll make a video about them when their fifteen minutes of fame arrives....
Beautiful Bipe, Pete.
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
10-23-2010 | 08:49 AM
#219
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
804 says: "You obviously don't know what I'm saying. Or what KE and LCS are saying.
If you did, you wouldn't be saying the crapola you are saying."
Yeah, that's me. No grasp of the English language at all. Not only that, but I've never flown an RC plane, never owned an Extreme Flight Yak with a Gasser, and I've never taken off and landed in a confined area before. I've never even performed a torque-roll. I've never owned Helis either.
Or....wait...no...I've done all that.
I like the crapola I'm saying. Sorry you don't. I probably wrote it because I didn't like the crapola YOU were writing. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
So, let's be civil. Why don't you EXPLAIN to us maroons out here why a 3D plane belongs at a sport/scale field, why it can't take off on a short field when it commonly does so in the same distance at a regular field? Why it can't be flown away from the runway or off to the side in an area set up for that sort of flight?
~ Jim ~
If you did, you wouldn't be saying the crapola you are saying."
Yeah, that's me. No grasp of the English language at all. Not only that, but I've never flown an RC plane, never owned an Extreme Flight Yak with a Gasser, and I've never taken off and landed in a confined area before. I've never even performed a torque-roll. I've never owned Helis either.
Or....wait...no...I've done all that.
I like the crapola I'm saying. Sorry you don't. I probably wrote it because I didn't like the crapola YOU were writing. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
So, let's be civil. Why don't you EXPLAIN to us maroons out here why a 3D plane belongs at a sport/scale field, why it can't take off on a short field when it commonly does so in the same distance at a regular field? Why it can't be flown away from the runway or off to the side in an area set up for that sort of flight?
~ Jim ~
10-23-2010 | 08:51 AM
#220
My Feedback: (19)
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
Appropriate characterization
+1
ORIGINAL: 804
Monday morning quarterbacks
Monday morning quarterbacks
+1
Well, it's obvious you aren't on my side, you like something else. So you get ZERO credibility from now on because of that!
LOL
~ Jim ~
10-23-2010 | 09:05 AM
#222
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: San Antonio,
TX
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
Let me try this approach:
What authorizes a FS to force a landing attempt on a runway he sees (and in RX with) people standing on,
rather than communicate to them to clear the runway for landing?
What authorizes a FS to force a landing attempt on a runway he sees (and in RX with) people standing on,
rather than communicate to them to clear the runway for landing?
10-23-2010 | 09:16 AM
#223
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lacona, NY
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: TexasSkyPilot
Excellent video! You did a great job of flying her. Loved the pilot's head turning at the end. I'd have put that at the beginning, just to draw them in.....(it's the novelist in me....draw them in, draw them in...) but it made for a nice ending.
I agree that the RC pilot in the collision should have had it on the ground immediately, that's also what I would have done. Full-Scale pilots can't know what we're doing, and vice-versa. At our Full-Scale field where we fly, if a plane should arrive unexpectedly and we cannot get out of the way, there is no choice; we are to pound it into the ground if we have to so the runway is clear. Otherwise, with the same amount of warning that we saw given in the video, we would move way over to the far side and circle there. Not a paltry 20 feet off the runway.
Pretty much what we saw happen there was people treating a Full-Scale airport and runway as though planes don't land there. And they were doing it during a Full-Scale fly-in!
Now, that video was taken right at the time of the collision, so I can't state with certainty that the 3D pilot never took responsibility for his actions...or lack thereof. He might have thought about it and thought, ''I shouldn't have listened to that guy, I should have put it on the ground right away. I knew better.'' I hope that was the case, but even if it was, there are a hundred idiots waiting in line to cause the next crash due to negligence and incompetence.
But I'll make a video about them when their fifteen minutes of fame arrives....
Beautiful Bipe, Pete.
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
Excellent video! You did a great job of flying her. Loved the pilot's head turning at the end. I'd have put that at the beginning, just to draw them in.....(it's the novelist in me....draw them in, draw them in...) but it made for a nice ending.
I agree that the RC pilot in the collision should have had it on the ground immediately, that's also what I would have done. Full-Scale pilots can't know what we're doing, and vice-versa. At our Full-Scale field where we fly, if a plane should arrive unexpectedly and we cannot get out of the way, there is no choice; we are to pound it into the ground if we have to so the runway is clear. Otherwise, with the same amount of warning that we saw given in the video, we would move way over to the far side and circle there. Not a paltry 20 feet off the runway.
Pretty much what we saw happen there was people treating a Full-Scale airport and runway as though planes don't land there. And they were doing it during a Full-Scale fly-in!
Now, that video was taken right at the time of the collision, so I can't state with certainty that the 3D pilot never took responsibility for his actions...or lack thereof. He might have thought about it and thought, ''I shouldn't have listened to that guy, I should have put it on the ground right away. I knew better.'' I hope that was the case, but even if it was, there are a hundred idiots waiting in line to cause the next crash due to negligence and incompetence.
But I'll make a video about them when their fifteen minutes of fame arrives....
Beautiful Bipe, Pete.
~ Jim ~ [sm=49_49.gif]
Thanks Jim.
My wife took the final video and I wasn't aware that she was filming. I agree my pilot bust does draw them in, I was invited to so many shows this year and I wasn't able to attend any of them. But you did see that I proved your point that some of us do become a little nervous when some people start flying 3D planes around our planes... especially the ones that took us forever to complete.
I agree 100% with most all of you commenting about what I Posted from the AMA, and I agree 110% with you Jim on this subject so far. God I hate to think of nose diving my planes in to the ground.[
] But if that's what it took for everyones safety and the protection of everyones privilage to fly, then I would do it. But Man, it would really hurt. 
It's like the stories we read about- pilot loosing control of his aircraft and refusing to bail out because his plane was diving too close to a school.
I'm glad we have the AMA looking out for us. I don't think I'd ever run for AMA office, I'd be pulling my hair out every time I had to do damage control. Like you said Jim, " You'll make a video about them when their fifteen minutes of fame arrives."
Seems like every year somebody is doing something to get their 15 minutes of fame.
JMHOPete
10-23-2010 | 09:24 AM
#224
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
I think what (almost) everyone is missing is that none of us were there with the radio, in the full scale, or behind the Tx of the rc plane.
All the Monday morning quarterbacks here that think they know exactly what they would have done in any of these folk's shoes
are full of it.
All the Monday morning quarterbacks here that think they know exactly what they would have done in any of these folk's shoes
are full of it.
"Full of it."
I don't understand that?
Radio? A non issue because they may not be working.
My comments are correct. First pass, just get out of the pilots way ASAP. Simply tap, on the shoulder, the R/C modeler that's flying the model airplane and he gets his model on the ground ASAP. Every runway has shoulders. He could land his model on that. Doesn't take much time or area to put a 3D model airplane on the ground.
BTW. It's Monday morning quarterbacking that resolves issues and conflicts. Important issues and important conflicts, especially if it's done in an adult manner without bias. Investigations happen after the fact and one has to start someplace.
When "bias" is in the equation, nothing gets accomplished. You just have continuous conversation and no agreement.
Perspective? Why would anyone disagree, that the field should have been cleared immediately?
This "IS" a good starting point for agreement.
10-23-2010 | 09:46 AM
#225
RE: An Incident with Lessons for All of Us
ORIGINAL: Luchnia
I have a comment about this. When I first soloed RC, I had three instructors. One of the constants that was repeated over and over was to ''Keep your eyes on YOUR OWN PLANE and DO NOT LOOK at other planes.'' Even today, this rings in my head it was repeated so much to me and I think it has been a huge help for me to keep my focus on what I am doing.
After flying a lot now, I can see planes in my extended vision and am aware of much more than when I used to be flying, but I will admit that it is more important to watch your plane and when you are doing acro/3d it is imperative that you watch your plane and not take your eyes off of it. A few moments with your eyes away could result in calamity.
With this in mind, why would it have been the responsibility of the RC pilot to see the other plane? That would be voiding the very thing instructors teach RC pilots.
For me if there were so much confusion that day, I would have not flown, but that is just me. I am very cautious when a lot of chaos is going on and will usually just sit and watch until things calm down some. I have noticed when a lot is going on, that is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
ORIGINAL: 3dsky
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
I do not care what the Air boss said the RC pilot should have seen that the plane was coming down the runway and held off flying until the FS landed, the FS was landing so why would you take up the RC planeThe guy shooting the video had time to film the FS coming down the runway. ?
After flying a lot now, I can see planes in my extended vision and am aware of much more than when I used to be flying, but I will admit that it is more important to watch your plane and when you are doing acro/3d it is imperative that you watch your plane and not take your eyes off of it. A few moments with your eyes away could result in calamity.
With this in mind, why would it have been the responsibility of the RC pilot to see the other plane? That would be voiding the very thing instructors teach RC pilots.
For me if there were so much confusion that day, I would have not flown, but that is just me. I am very cautious when a lot of chaos is going on and will usually just sit and watch until things calm down some. I have noticed when a lot is going on, that is an accident waiting for a place to happen.
We are all still learning, learning is a life long process.
