June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
05-20-2011, 07:40 AM
#26
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
You can compare apples to Oranges all day long, I gladly accept advertising to pay for the media I want to use
You're really going to make the argument that the magazine isn't forced upon the AMA members?
Please let me know where the opt-out check box is on that membership renewal form, I keep missing it
ORIGINAL: Michael R.
How is it that you're being forced fed advertising?
For instance there are banner ads all over this forum, but there's no one forcing me to read them.
I like your idea of having a media delivery choice.
How is it that you're being forced fed advertising?
For instance there are banner ads all over this forum, but there's no one forcing me to read them.
I like your idea of having a media delivery choice.
You're really going to make the argument that the magazine isn't forced upon the AMA members?
Please let me know where the opt-out check box is on that membership renewal form, I keep missing it
05-20-2011, 08:28 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
I don't know if anyone else feels as I do about receiving the Model Aviation magazine but I have tried with limited success to get my Model Aviation subscription cancelled. Back in the 1960's an AMA member could opt out of the magazine subscription and the only thing they would receive was the AMA information section. I wish they would offer that option again since as far as I am concerned the magazine is useless and as soon as I receive it I toss it in the trash. I think this is a waste of money on the AMAs part.
05-20-2011, 10:01 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
Cessna,
I believe it was Stickbuilder that finally successfully got muncie to stop mailing him the magazine,
and by opting out of the magazine (that he is charged $18 for) he saves $0 off his dues.
Call muncie and tell them you dont want yours mailed at you, you will stop getting it.
I believe it was Stickbuilder that finally successfully got muncie to stop mailing him the magazine,
and by opting out of the magazine (that he is charged $18 for) he saves $0 off his dues.
Call muncie and tell them you dont want yours mailed at you, you will stop getting it.
05-20-2011, 10:07 AM
#29
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
Oh, to be sure I noticed. That along with many other things.
As far as assimilation goes, all of the listed items were of my choosing to pursue. This is how I have decided to contribute and at the level of effort that each entail. From my personal point of view I agree with the age old statement that "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". I know that everyone has their own viewpoints and not all agree, as is their right.
Back to the June 2011 MA discussion. For those who don't wish to receive their magazine why not just take it and drop it off at a dentist/doctors office or donate it to a school? Until and if the opt out choice is changed pass the information along to others. I do.
As far as assimilation goes, all of the listed items were of my choosing to pursue. This is how I have decided to contribute and at the level of effort that each entail. From my personal point of view I agree with the age old statement that "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". I know that everyone has their own viewpoints and not all agree, as is their right.
Back to the June 2011 MA discussion. For those who don't wish to receive their magazine why not just take it and drop it off at a dentist/doctors office or donate it to a school? Until and if the opt out choice is changed pass the information along to others. I do.
05-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
You can have the magazine shipped to any address you please. A needy school or library is an excellent option. MA has excellent promotional value.
05-20-2011, 11:48 AM
#31
RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: Michael R.
You can have the magazine shipped to any address you please. A needy school or library is an excellent option. MA has excellent promotional value.
You can have the magazine shipped to any address you please. A needy school or library is an excellent option. MA has excellent promotional value.
Are you getting the point yet?
05-20-2011, 04:44 PM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: swede5
Oh, to be sure I noticed. That along with many other things.
As far as assimilation goes, all of the listed items were of my choosing to pursue. This is how I have decided to contribute and at the level of effort that each entail. From my personal point of view I agree with the age old statement that ''if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem''. I know that everyone has their own viewpoints and not all agree, as is their right.
Oh, to be sure I noticed. That along with many other things.
As far as assimilation goes, all of the listed items were of my choosing to pursue. This is how I have decided to contribute and at the level of effort that each entail. From my personal point of view I agree with the age old statement that ''if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem''. I know that everyone has their own viewpoints and not all agree, as is their right.
05-20-2011, 05:14 PM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
Sorry, but you're not being "forced" into anything. Your CHOICE is to be an AMA member or not. MA comes with the membership. Easy enough.
Guess I must be one of the oddballs, because I happen to thoroughly enjoy reading MA and look forward to it every month.
Guess I must be one of the oddballs, because I happen to thoroughly enjoy reading MA and look forward to it every month.
05-20-2011, 05:52 PM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
MA comes with the membership. Easy enough
Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can do it again if we just say to,
folks seem to keep forgetting that part.
AMA existed and thrived and MA was optional then, having the option didnt kill the AMA.
So Tarasdad, was AMA wrong then for offering it or wrong now for not offering it?
OR, you could just recognize that there is nothing wrong with having it be an option,
so AMA wasnt wrong then,
and AMA wouldnt be wrong now if they do it again
05-20-2011, 06:17 PM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
And it used to be an option, easy enough for that too.
Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can do it again if we just say to,
folks seem to keep forgetting that part.
AMA existed and thrived and MA was optional then, having the option didnt kill the AMA.
So Tarasdad, was AMA wrong then for offering it or wrong now for not offering it?
OR, you could just recognize that there is nothing wrong with having it be an option,
so AMA wasnt wrong then,
and AMA wouldnt be wrong now if they do it again
MA comes with the membership. Easy enough
Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can do it again if we just say to,
folks seem to keep forgetting that part.
AMA existed and thrived and MA was optional then, having the option didnt kill the AMA.
So Tarasdad, was AMA wrong then for offering it or wrong now for not offering it?
OR, you could just recognize that there is nothing wrong with having it be an option,
so AMA wasnt wrong then,
and AMA wouldnt be wrong now if they do it again
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
05-20-2011, 06:41 PM
#37
RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: Tarasdad
Sorry, but you're not being ''forced'' into anything. Your CHOICE is to be an AMA member or not. MA comes with the membership. Easy enough.
Guess I must be one of the oddballs, because I happen to thoroughly enjoy reading MA and look forward to it every month.
Sorry, but you're not being ''forced'' into anything. Your CHOICE is to be an AMA member or not. MA comes with the membership. Easy enough.
Guess I must be one of the oddballs, because I happen to thoroughly enjoy reading MA and look forward to it every month.
Lets say your state government required as part of your Annual Driver's License Fee they also send you a Magazine. Doing so they now have Millions of "subscribers" to market to advertisers,, Lets now say you just don't like the fact you're being used this way, Like the magazine or not. What are you going to do, Choose not to drive??
05-20-2011, 07:19 PM
#38
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
That may just set a record for fallacies in a single post.
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
I will happily simplify it for you:
Having optional MA is a coin,
you either have it or you dont.
Is it wrong to have it? Is it wrong to not have it?
Cause AMA has done both.
If you would like to say there is a side of that coin that is wrong to do,
then you are just narrowing down WHEN you thing AMA was/is wrong.
capice?
05-21-2011, 02:15 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: bradpaul
That may just set a record for fallacies in a single post.
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
That may just set a record for fallacies in a single post.
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
05-21-2011, 08:17 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
If you have that hard a time understanding,
I will happily simplify it for you:
Having optional MA is a coin,
you either have it or you dont.
Is it wrong to have it? Is it wrong to not have it?
Cause AMA has done both.
If you would like to say there is a side of that coin that is wrong to do,
then you are just narrowing down WHEN you thing AMA was/is wrong.
capice?
That may just set a record for fallacies in a single post.
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
If A was wrong then, is B wrong now
A is not wrong now, so A was not wrong then (supposition not proven)
so A is not wrong now
Brad
I will happily simplify it for you:
Having optional MA is a coin,
you either have it or you dont.
Is it wrong to have it? Is it wrong to not have it?
Cause AMA has done both.
If you would like to say there is a side of that coin that is wrong to do,
then you are just narrowing down WHEN you thing AMA was/is wrong.
capice?
Please define your parameters for "rightness" or "wrongness".
Brad
05-21-2011, 12:01 PM
#42
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
Please define your parameters for "rightness" or "wrongness".
Teaching you right from wrong was your parents job, not mine.
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now
.... just as Tiered membership was decried as wrong wrong wrong
right up to the point that Muncie chose to have tiers,
and presto-chango folks defend tierd membership because muncie cannot ever be anything but right.
If muncie just up and started Optional MA tomorrow,
would you still stand firm against it, or will you sheep-up to toe the company line?
It is the folks that are trying to introduce some kind of wrongness to having optional MA
that are confusing the issue
... are YOU one of them? Do you find optional MA somehow wrong?
Perhaps if we heard what was so terrible about AMA back when MA was optional
we could understand what you fear would happen if we did it again.
If AMA was outstanding perfection on all fronts back when we had optional MA,
then what is there to fear about doing now what we did then.
Please cite some examples of what was so bad about AMA back then that you want to avoid now?
05-21-2011, 12:29 PM
#43
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
BP, if you dont know right from wrong there is nothing I can do to help you:
Teaching you right from wrong was your parents job, not mine.
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now
.... just as Tiered membership was decried as wrong wrong wrong
right up to the point that Muncie chose to have tiers,
and presto-chango folks defend tierd membership because muncie cannot ever be anything but right.
If muncie just up and started Optional MA tomorrow,
would you still stand firm against it, or will you sheep-up to toe the company line?
It is the folks that are trying to introduce some kind of wrongness to having optional MA
that are confusing the issue
... are YOU one of them? Do you find optional MA somehow wrong?
Perhaps if we heard what was so terrible about AMA back when MA was optional
we could understand what you fear would happen if we did it again.
If AMA was outstanding perfection on all fronts back when we had optional MA,
then what is there to fear about doing now what we did then.
Please cite some examples of what was so bad about AMA back then that you want to avoid now?
Please define your parameters for ''rightness'' or ''wrongness''.
Teaching you right from wrong was your parents job, not mine.
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now
.... just as Tiered membership was decried as wrong wrong wrong
right up to the point that Muncie chose to have tiers,
and presto-chango folks defend tierd membership because muncie cannot ever be anything but right.
If muncie just up and started Optional MA tomorrow,
would you still stand firm against it, or will you sheep-up to toe the company line?
It is the folks that are trying to introduce some kind of wrongness to having optional MA
that are confusing the issue
... are YOU one of them? Do you find optional MA somehow wrong?
Perhaps if we heard what was so terrible about AMA back when MA was optional
we could understand what you fear would happen if we did it again.
If AMA was outstanding perfection on all fronts back when we had optional MA,
then what is there to fear about doing now what we did then.
Please cite some examples of what was so bad about AMA back then that you want to avoid now?
I see that you cannot understand that all decisions must be judged within the time and circumstances that they were made. Very sad.
Brad
05-21-2011, 03:45 PM
#44
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now.
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now.
If you don't want it you have the option of having it sent to a library, school, veterans hostpital or just not getting it all toghther. Have you done this?
05-21-2011, 07:55 PM
#45
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
Red
again you guys are directing your problems with other guys posts at me for some reason:
it was post18 by scale only 4 me that you want to refer to, and ask HIM about what HE said
rather than talk at me about what HE said
had you been reading the thread,
instead of popping in only after my posts to argue at me,
you would have seen HE already addressed your ideas for sending it elsewhere while still getting billed for it,
in post 31 (color by me)
Sure, I can douse it with gas and burn it too, but that does take away from the fact that the AMA has me as a subscriber and makes Advertising revenue based on my being forced to subscribe to something I would otherwise not.
Are you getting the point yet?
Red, it seems you are not getting HIS point yet
as you are just recycling arguments that HE already shot down
If you don't want it you have the option of having it sent to a library, school, veterans hostpital or just not getting it all toghther. Have you done this?
it was post18 by scale only 4 me that you want to refer to, and ask HIM about what HE said
rather than talk at me about what HE said
The "Hobby" is fine,,
The fact that I'm forced to pay for a publication that I don't want and couldn't stand on it's own otherwise is on the One and Only Problem I have with the AMA. It's bad enough I have to pay for insurance I'll never use. Just Email me or post online the Membership Newsletter parts and quit force-feeding me the advertising..
The fact that I'm forced to pay for a publication that I don't want and couldn't stand on it's own otherwise is on the One and Only Problem I have with the AMA. It's bad enough I have to pay for insurance I'll never use. Just Email me or post online the Membership Newsletter parts and quit force-feeding me the advertising..
instead of popping in only after my posts to argue at me,
you would have seen HE already addressed your ideas for sending it elsewhere while still getting billed for it,
in post 31 (color by me)
ORIGINAL: Michael R.
You can have the magazine shipped to any address you please. A needy school or library is an excellent option. MA has excellent promotional value.
You can have the magazine shipped to any address you please. A needy school or library is an excellent option. MA has excellent promotional value.
Sure, I can douse it with gas and burn it too, but that does take away from the fact that the AMA has me as a subscriber and makes Advertising revenue based on my being forced to subscribe to something I would otherwise not.
Are you getting the point yet?
as you are just recycling arguments that HE already shot down
05-22-2011, 03:06 AM
#46
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
Red, it seems you are not getting HIS point yet
as you are just recycling arguments that HE already shot down
Red, it seems you are not getting HIS point yet
as you are just recycling arguments that HE already shot down
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
If AMA wasnt wrong to have optional MA back then,
obviously AMA wont be wrong to have it again now.
They realized they were wrong back then and stopped it because so few signed up to opt out. It would have cost them more to send the required AMA news to the few than it would be to send them the magazine.
I hope this clears it up for you and the few that have a problem with it.
05-22-2011, 03:21 AM
#47
RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
That may or may not be true history, Seam to me if that was the case the By-laws could have been changed,,
Now, with new media it wouldn't cost them jack to email or just post the newsletter online if a member chose that over the rag..
Now, with new media it wouldn't cost them jack to email or just post the newsletter online if a member chose that over the rag..
05-22-2011, 04:35 AM
#48
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: Michael R.
Even when I was a paid member of the publication staff it was my honor to pat colleagues on the back for a job well done. Nobody can take my right to support a group of hard working people. You're allowed an opinion just as much as me. But this point is off topic.
This post seems to be questioning the ethical credibility of the publication's feature selections. As if in some way MA is getting kick-backs or some other boost for promotional work delivered. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that such a thing has never happened and never will. In fact we have to fight tooth-and-nail for popular subject material, and do it with a short list of talent willing to work for the highest aeromodeling author compensation media source.
Model Aviation is and always will be a reflection of AMA member activities. If you don't like the content, then change the hobby.
Even when I was a paid member of the publication staff it was my honor to pat colleagues on the back for a job well done. Nobody can take my right to support a group of hard working people. You're allowed an opinion just as much as me. But this point is off topic.
This post seems to be questioning the ethical credibility of the publication's feature selections. As if in some way MA is getting kick-backs or some other boost for promotional work delivered. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that such a thing has never happened and never will. In fact we have to fight tooth-and-nail for popular subject material, and do it with a short list of talent willing to work for the highest aeromodeling author compensation media source.
Model Aviation is and always will be a reflection of AMA member activities. If you don't like the content, then change the hobby.
05-22-2011, 05:36 AM
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RE: June 2011 AMA's Model Aviation
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
That may or may not be true history, Seam to me if that was the case the By-laws could have been changed,,
Now, with new media it wouldn't cost them jack to email or just post the newsletter online if a member chose that over the rag..
That may or may not be true history, Seam to me if that was the case the By-laws could have been changed,,
Now, with new media it wouldn't cost them jack to email or just post the newsletter online if a member chose that over the rag..
As for electronic............. by regulation you can ask the membership to "opt in" to receive electronic communication but YOU CANNOT REQUIRE IT.
Strange.............. when the AMA gets blamed for following government regulations.
Brad
