Limitless Aero

My Feedback: (17)

The most entertaining part about this discussion is the fact that many are asking government to regulate a certain type of rc flying or make it illegal. In the idea that it will somehow protect fixed wing flight. Do you honestly believe this is what would happen? Mr. Cain may not really be for uav flight but from his post it seems that he does understand that it is hear to stay and must be worked with and not something to be ignored.
Having that group as a part of ama can only strengthen its stance and allow it to become the "community based organization" because it has provisions for something the government is in fact concerned about. Ama wants to be the authority on the subject to congress and the FAA.

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

And all this time I thought 'Circle Flyers' were U-control guys!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

If we allow the FAA or anyone even try to regulate any part of model flying then we might as well KISS all most all model flying good by.
Go ahead and call me "CHICKEN LITTLE" but given an inch and the FAA (especially in today's 911/Terrorist climate) they won't stop till they eliminate it ,or control it, or make it unavailable and/or so costly as to be impractical for most of us.
We must all stand together as one united front to promote all R/C no mater if we like, don't like it. To allow the FAA or any government control of a hobby/industry is to eventually cause it's complete and utter destruction as we know it today. Through one segment of Model avaiton under the bus is to eventually condemn all model aviation. If U don't see this then go back and reread the FAA's opinion on #336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012

Just My Humble Opinion

Hossfly

To fly all kinds of models is very commendable. To insult those that do differently from other aero-modelers, whatever their taste, is extremely LESS than commendable. Each modeler should be allowed to do as he/she pleases as long as He/She does not down grade others.
Now I will do as I say NOT to do! wkdbuell, your status designates only 5 years flying RC models. I suggest you obtain at least that many more years before you continue to tell others just what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

Just like the control line guys when RC first came on the scene, they said RC would end the hobby as they knew it and RC was not part of modeling. FPV technology is here to stay, the world is changing fast and there is nothing anyone is going to do to stop it. I understand the brain of the old man, it is set in it's ways, it fears and rejects change. That used to be fine hundreds of years ago, things generally stayed the same over vast periods of time. We live in a modern age, where the pace of technology far outpaces the ability of the old brain to keep pace with it. My advice is, instead of getting old and doing everything the way it used to be, try something new!

2014 District 8 Celebration of Flight and Memorial

DeferredDefect

Exactly!

Shoot, there's still guys out there that think electric aircraft, no matter if they are 100% scale masterpieces, aren't "real" R/C aircraft. Same goes with foam models.

The hobby is far- FAR- safer than it has ever been, with 2.4 Ghz radios now the norm, electronic reliability at an all-time high, and with more resources available to the average modeller than ever before.

The days of 60 sized free flight models and unreliable radio gear doesn't sound "safe" to me.

Sure, idiots are running around with Phantom quadcopters, but idiots also existed in the 1970s; They just didn't have YouTube to share their antics with the world.

The doom and gloom has been going around for years, but at the end of the day, the changes in regulation have nothing to do with FPV or any other specific aspect of our hobby. It's the public calling for an FAA crackdown, a clueless media, and post 9/11 mass hysteria that's been running things for the past ten years. Had this been happening in 2005, the anti-FPV crowd would be calling to ban ARFs, LiPos, or whatever innovation was currently the newest trend.


...And this is coming from a glow powered, balsa cutting "circle-flier" who's never flown FPV.

Limitless Aero

My Feedback: (17)

You obviously did not read my post very well. It was never about a type of flying. It was about peoples discrimination against flying styles other then their own, especially when they have never done it themselfs. A better term for these people would be FOGs but of course they are not older. I have no problem with any type of flying. It's all fun, if you want to go fly pattern or just fly around the pattern cool. It is very unprofessional to make assumptions about someone you do not know. I would expect more from someone running for a national organization such as the ama.

Limitless Aero

My Feedback: (17)

1+ good post.

init4fun

Hoss didn't make any assumptions , you put it right out there with your slurring a group of RC hobbyists as Circle Flyers . You see , once you come to the low of insulting others to make your point , you have lowered the bar as to acceptable behavior and have no right trying to deflect the negative attention on to someone else who took umbrage with your meanness . You said it , own it , and at least be man enough to stand behind your words . Now , just so you know , I truly DO fly everything I can get my hands on and this includes 3D ! I just don't make an ass of myself by hovering over the runway or otherwise allow my mode of flight to affect the others flying at the field . I'd love to try FPV but age and condition pretty much keep me from trying it , who knows , maybe someday . Back to point our HOBBY organization most certainly should embrace FPV just as it embraces all other aspects of our hobby . But when they want to spend MY hobby dollars "Converting" the AMA into a commercial entity WRT paid Drone operations that's where I draw the line and question the "non profit , educationally based AeroMODELING organization" as to just where us HOBBY based MODELERS fit into this grand new plan .

Yes , I will say it out loud , I DID vote for Hoss , and for the hobby future of our AMA I hope and pray he is actually elected !

init4fun AMA 80274

acerc

Nice pics, but where is the FPV?
Lets set the record straight, I am an old fart by todays standards and I have no issue with any aspect of our hobby. I have done C/L all the way up to my current giant scale gas and I like it all. I have not done FPV because under the AMA rules I personally don't see the point. I'm standing in my usual spot and watch it through a visor screen instead of directly and depend on a spotter to tell me of any issue that my normal peripheral would have. Just don't sound like my thing! Remember, to be legit under the AMA rules one has to stay within line of sight for the spotter.

bradpaul

The argument that multi rotor FPV aircraft are not "model aircraft" is at it's base ignorant. These aircraft are flown by government and military worldwide. Therefore they are as much a valid model aircraft as my 1/4 scale Fokker.

In fact since they are flown in the same manner as the model they are based (cockpit view) instead of from a ground perspective they are truly models.

What some fail to understand is FPV is a type of piloting a model aircraft and not a type of aircraft.

Being only 65 years old, I hope that my willingness to adapt to new ideas does not significantly decline before I take the "dirt nap".

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I do not feel there should be a law restricting anyone from flying aircraft of any type by the Government. I do feel that the AMA should be careful what it considers a model aircraft, and discriminate as to the type that it underwrites.

acerc

I do hope that everyone understands that the issue is not in the hobby related FPV as the AMA has already laid out guidelines for those. The issue is that the AMA is looking to incorporate "Drones" into the fold. There is a difference between the two, then throw into the mix all the hobby related quad copter type and there is a big mix of all the above. I do not envy either the AMA or the FAA in sorting out just how and what and where.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Regardless of what happens, I will continue to fly the aircraft I want to in spite of any government intrusion.

bradpaul

RC Model or police military?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Couldn't agree more...and as you say " I hope that my willingness to adapt to new ideas does not significantly decline before I take the "dirt nap".

Why modelers tend to poo-poo on each other so much has always bewildered me...

As for as the term "circle flyer", "old fart" and "FOG" that's just model aviation vernacular for what is known as a curmudgeon every where else... and if you don't like the term...you are one! LOL

Hossfly

First, Thanks much to init4fun for his kind words.

Personally, I have no problem with what, when, or where a person wishes to fly his machines. That is his/her business. OTOH, when that business begins to interfere with the basics of our hobby (to me it is a SPORT) then I stand up and start loading the old musket. I have spent many years working with model aviation in many ways. I never made money on model aviation of any significance. Never wanted to do more than provide something that would promote model aviation.
Now here comes the money-makers, rope AMA into subjects where AMA officers are wanting to spend big money for things that IMO, those that are getting into the new activity should be financing. How many here have financed a flying facility and put serious money into such facility? I am sure there are a number of you that have, so do you want these facilities to be left to the methods that the money-makers are after ? I dropped $250,000.00 some 18 years ago. There is a nice facility still, yet not what I had hoped for. Many years ago I gave AMA property appraised at $40,000.00. Now that would be 5 times what it was then. AMA practically dumped the unit.
Refresh my memory, so as you will remember that big deal in Florida where the properties were to be for RC fliers. It does not do that as of the current time. It's gone as a RC facility. AMA just voted in $250,000.oo for what I see as nothing more than a large traveling travelogue for the current AMA Staff.
IMO there is no end to waste. The modeler reaps about as much out of AMA as we reap out of Congress.
I am a long way from the typical "Yes Man." When the EC becomes a round table of those that can only say, "Yes Sir, Yes Sir, 3 bags full" then stuff happens. Only if one is not one of the "Yes Sir" personalities will one feel like he or she really wants to see their own face in the AM.
Our best way is to stand up to the hired help in Muncie, tell the hired folks that we, the voted-in Executive Council will make the rules. Then those hired to perform the labors will handle the distribution as long as they distribute as the EC so designates. We, the Executive Council, can, if we stand for the majority of the membership, then we will determine whatever the Academy needs. We are the people that want our aero-modeling to succeed, and we don't wait until 8-9 AM to start then quit at 4-5 PM.
I can see a future of drones in the aero-modeling world. No question about it, but if we do it right, then we do not have to beg the Congress to keep the FAA off our behinders.
We can make it safe as thermal gliders - sailplanes and enjoy them. As we do more and learn more and gather a 99.9% safety record then there will not be all this stuff other than some that are not making $$$$s on we modelers. I can live with that. Can YOU? Don't tell anyone but I have played with some of the small fellows like about 16-18" machines. My nephew lost one in the timbers. Unable to ever find it, but here are more in the workshop.

az3d

My Feedback: (59)

I think people are getting off point. FPV is not going away but that is not the question. FPV issues (to my knowledge) don't occur at AMA fields. Should the AMA be involved in any activity not part of the AMA sanctioned areas or events? Does the AMA try to control model rockets, kites or balloons? In my opinion the AMA should stick to the places that are physically under its control and everything flying in them. Getting involved in anything outside of their span of control can only end badly. Maybe that is what they are doing, I don't know.

bradpaul

Of course they should. There is no requirement to be a club member or to fly at AMA club fields. In fact the majority of AMA members do neither. Are you actually advocating throwing out over 50% of the membership of the AMA?

az3d

My Feedback: (59)

I did not know that. Very interesting. Do they fly FPV?

init4fun

Yes az3d I also think the discussion has lost focus of the fact that FPV and Drone mean two very separate things , and that Brad's post does nothing but further blur the line . In my view , "Model aircraft" is the exclusive term for any devise no natter *WHAT* it's configuration , that's flown ONLY for the sheer fun of flying it . Once you attach ANY other mission such as paid airborne photography , search and rescue , and of course certainly military combat duties , it has now crossed OUT of being a "model aircraft" and is a non hobby tool used for the completion of it's assigned task . A Drone , in other words . Now , we can jerk around forever as to the "well they're both UAS" , yes , they are both flying through the air unmanned . So is a pile of flung dog poop but we ain't talkin bout THAT , either . Our AMA is a HOBBY based organization dedicated to MODEL AIRCRAFT of which the tools known as Drones have no kin other than to share a bit of the same technology , and I don't want MY AMA chasing the big money of commercial Drones since I will bet we as hobbyists get lost in the shuffle once the major $$$ start rollin in

* Yes Brad , a multi rotor IS as much a "Valid model aircraft as your 1/4 scale Fokker" , right up till you assign it any mission other than the sheer fun of seeing it in the air . Cause then , be it a 6 rotor heli OR your 1/4 scale Fokker , it has become a Drone , which due to it's non hobby nature should not be the business nor concern of our hobby based organization ........

bradpaul

Finally we are getting to the important issue.!!!!

Just like the failed attempt to ban "assault weapons" based on physical characteristics when all along the issue needed to be how the weapon was used, the simplistic recommendation to have the AMA move away from supporting certain air frame types based on physical characteristics will fail.

It has always been how the air frame is used.......................... recreational or commercial. FPV is NOT THE ISSUE. Put a camera on a conventional RC model fly it from the ground to take photographs for sale and you have commercial use.

I do not support the AMA getting into the "commercial use" minefield! But to focus the solution on banning multi trotors or FPV IS NOT WHAT WILL FIX THE PROBLEM! It is the RC equivalent of a Dianne Feinstein stupid "Assault Weapon Ban".

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

vertical: We might be changing your name How's the Bird Man of Alcatraz sound ... The FAA is real good at porsacuation of infraction of the FAR's when they are true FAR's

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Kids nowadays...they just don't want to listen to authority! lol

acerc

Exactly, I am a member of the AMA and a member of a club, but, I do most of my flying from my pasture. As long as I follow the rules AMA set forth I am covered by the insurance, is that not what the AMA is really for "To insure" us modelers.