Hydro Junkie

The AMA is a CBO, a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING ORGANIZATION, who's job it is and has been to support the hobby of flying R/C models.
How is that the same as an insurance brokerage? The AMA has provided insurance as part of their membership as group insurance. Commercial drone insurance is not the same, meaning the AMA EC is no longer supporting hobby flyer but, rather, is looking for ways to make money. That's not in our interest, is it?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Community Based Organization

They aren't selling or providing commercial drone insurance, its the same as the Enterprise partner or the Nationwide Car insurance.

rcmiket

But you do need to be a AMA member to purchase that insurance.

Mike

init4fun

Mike , did you mean to type

"But you do NOT need to be an AMA member to purchase that insurance" ?

Because as your statement presently reads , that you do need to be a member to buy the insurance , then the insurance becomes just a different , "members only" , AMA offering .....

rcmiket

NO you need to be a AMA member to purchase commercial drone insurance thru whoever they are hawking it for.
From the AMA website.

" AMA Membership is required for purchase, but you do not need to be a member to get a quote today. "

My point is that we (the AMA) are involved in the commercial end of this. Thought we were a Hobbyist organization?

Mike

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

I don't understand your beef.

You have to be an AMA member to get the Enterprise discount because that price is for AMA members.

init4fun

To be honest , I'm somewhat relieved that it is for AMA members only . When I first read "AMA offers commercial drone insurance" I was under the belief that since we are a hobbyist only 501c organization , to directly offer a commercial product to non members would step outside of the realm of "Hobbyist" . It sounds as if this is the AMA steering AMA members who also happen to fly non hobbyist type flights toward an insurance product that will cover them when the AMA won't , namely during commercial operations . I envision it this way ;

"Harry is a RC model plane hobbyist , who is an AMA member and thus covered by AMA insurance when flying his hobby based flights at the club field . But Harry also has a side business of taking real estate photos for Century 21 (or any other professional home sales company of your choice) and of course by the non hobbyist , for profit nature of the flights he ain't covered by the hobbyist insurance included with every AMA membership . So here is a way we can steer Harry toward an insurance product that will cover him while he's making money with his RC flights , making sure that there is a clear distinction between our regular AMA member (hobbyist) insurance and the insurance product Harry actually needs to be properly covered for his profit making flights . It's the insurance company's interaction with Harry that is commercial and since we aren't directly selling Harry the insurance ourselves (the AMA , that is) we haven't stepped into any commercial territory ."

Now , if the above is true and I'm not mistaken or have missed something , then I really don't see the problem with the commercial insurance referral we are offering our members . Hopefully we were smart enough to negotiate a "referral fee" from the insurance company for every commercial account we send them ?

"AMA offers commercial insurance" would indeed be a problem , as we're not an insurance brokerage . "AMA offers commercial insurance referrals" really can't be seen as any kinds of conflict unless like I said I've missed something here ?

init4fun

PS , Yes Hound , yes I do realize this is the "Bad Bad Drone" thread and not the "commercial insurance" thread , but since the subject went and popped up here I figured "hey , when in Rome......."


addressed to hound cause I can see ya there , just waitin to pounce ......

rcmiket

My beef is the AMA has no business being in the commercial end of this. Opening a can of worms they can't handle IMO.

Mike

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Wow the same 4 guys still here *****ing about the AMA Hey is that that Piggy guy (ASTROHOG) If I rember correctly. Did he get smart and get out 2. JUST FOR OLD TIMES SAKE
By Buy Bye. eyB, yuB, yB

init4fun

Now there's a quality post that just adds SO much to the conversation ..... NOT !

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I'm still here, though it has nothing to do with how smart I am! Still passionate about my hobby.

Regards,

Astro

rcmiket

Ya know many visit this forum and don't post ( for obvious reasons) . Me I stop by from time to time to toss my 2 cents in on the subject. Just food for thought.

Mike

Hydro Junkie

I'm kind of the same way, just drop in occasionally to see what's going on. I personally don't like the direction things are going with the AMA. The way I see it, there's too much going on in the way of special projects and self interests being supported by the EC that don't help anyone outside the area that "Taj Muncie" is in or, for that matter, the EC itself. Time for a serious change as same ol' same ol' isn't getting it done anymore

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Thats funny because most of the EC doesn't live any closer to "Taj Muncie" as you call it than any other person and the only time they are there is a couple of meetings a year unless they go for themselves to fly at the Nats or something.

EC members advocate for and represent their districts.

Hydro Junkie

And I understand that. At the same time, look at how the EC runs their meetings. They all make the trek to Muncie, billing for travel and lodging, when it's vastly more cost effective to do a Skype meeting over the internet. Franklin showed, a while back, how much the EC spends a meetings and travel. The costs incurred aren't mind boggling but they are far from insignificant for an organization that is, whether they believe it or not, strapped for cash. That is probably as much a driving force behind offering commercial insurance for quad flyers as anything else.
Something I don't understand is why ALMOST ALL of the national events have been at the AMA site in Muncie? The IMPBA, NAMBA, the National Square Dance Federation, just to name a few, rotate their national events around the country every year. I'd be willing to bet that the EC won't go that route because of the amount of capital it has tied up in the AMA site. When you think about the amount of money the districts could make by hosting a national event instead of having it in Muncie, it is almost mind boggling. Starting in 2000, the wife and I have gone to the national square dance conventions in Anaheim CA, Portland OR, Wichita KS, Long Beach CA, Detroit MI, Spokane WA, Little Rock AR, Springfield MA, and Cincinnati OH. We are going to Marietta GA in 2019. How many of those cities do you think we would have gone or will go to if the nationals were held in one static location? Now, picture how much money was added to each city as several thousand dancers/tourists spent between four and ten days in each one? Can we say well into the millions of dollars?

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

I hear ya, but the hardware necessary to host a Nats but even more of a problem is finding a site.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I bet the AMA could build one hell of a Nats-capable facility for the same $$ it is proposing to spend on an indoor flying site in Muncie.

Astro

Hydro Junkie

We have a site that would work in Redmond WA. It's located in Marymoor Park and the flying field and parking facilities look to be more than capable of handling a national event. Some of the parking would be a bit of a walk but nothing that isn't doable. Here's a shot of the area:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6608...7i13312!8i6656

rcmiket

That level of participation at the NATS has dropped to the point that there are many locations around the country that could host them. The desire to do so just isn't there. Heck just maybe participation might increase by offering a different location.

Mike

Hydro Junkie

That is what I'm thinking. Remove the need to travel from the coasts to the midwest and the costs go down for those that would have had to travel. For me, it's a 36 or so hour and 2300 mile drive just to get to Muncie. That means four days of travel time and anywhere from 230 to 460 gallons of gas, depending if I take my camp trailer or not. If I stay at hotels and eat at restaurants every meal, you can add $150 or so per day away from home. That kind of money adds up quickly, especially when you add the time off from work that I may or may not get paid for

Appowner

I bailed on the AMA some 25 years ago and haven't looked back. I remember a time when the NATS bounced around the country year to year and it was rare when any category had no participants. That all went away when AMA HQ left the DC area and went to Muncie. That move IMHO signaled when the AMA quit building any relationship with the government.

There are a lot of communities in the country that would be more than willing to host a NATs. I just do not believe the AMA wants to nor knows how to approach these communities to secure the venue. If they did know how, there would be a lot more flying sites around.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

The Nats used to travel around the country. My first Nats was at Lincoln, NB. There was one at Lake Charles, LA, that I missed, one at Tri-Cities, WA, two or three at Lawrencevill, IL and then we got stuck at Muncie, IA: Largely to validate the Muncie land acquisition. When the Nats traveled, volunteers from clubs local to the venue were the bulk of the workers. When it was held at Lawrenceville several times in a row the clubs got jaded and volunteer participation dropped off. The EC used this as a justification for tieing the Nats to Muncie.

During my experience with the Nats, AMA did a poor job of PR & management. During the first Muncie Nats no one in town knew there was a national contest going on at the AMA site. I asked around when I'd go into town to eat or buy snacks. At the first Lawrenceville Nats AMA rented cars from the St. Louis Airport Hertz agency but the AMA Nats staff neglected to find out ahead of time if Hertz had any pickups to rent. They didn't; big surprise. We had to use volunteers' vehicles to set up. I worked for AMA in Facilities Maint twice, twice for NMPRA as a pylon judge, ran a pattern site for NSRCA in 1996; my last time at the Nats. I got paid mileage & per diem working for AMA and the SIGS. Never covered my expenses and burned up my vacation time. So after the Nats quit traveling I quit the Nats and traveled to other places on my vacations.

CR

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

That brings up an interesting point....who 'mans' the Nats every year? I'm sure the local clubs are burned out as are the surrounding areas. Anyone know?

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

I don't know how it's done now but the EC pulled a great hoodwink on the SIGs, back in 1995-96, in laying the manpower responsibility for each contest on the "sponsoring" SIG. Pretty slick.

CR