Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
11-20-2015, 02:27 PM
#1777
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Well congratulations. Quite honestly, the email to them asking for the discount for active duty (nothing big, just same as seniors) happened to be that mythical one and only first contact email that didn't get a response - well didn't get a response from several separate email addresses.
Again, what's more likely? All eight or so addresses failed, didn't exist, were wrong, or ended up in spam folders, or they just didn't want to do anything about it? Given that all of them went to different servers...it sure looks like the latter.
And that was my first impression of dealing with AMA leadership. Not a single "Thanks for your suggestion...". Not a single response. And you wonder why I'm critical of AMA.
Again, what's more likely? All eight or so addresses failed, didn't exist, were wrong, or ended up in spam folders, or they just didn't want to do anything about it? Given that all of them went to different servers...it sure looks like the latter.
And that was my first impression of dealing with AMA leadership. Not a single "Thanks for your suggestion...". Not a single response. And you wonder why I'm critical of AMA.
At a minimum, a cursory thank you is called for when someone takes the time to reach out with a suggestion, no doubt. That being said, there is a good chance they get a lot of e-mail and might actually have someone scanning them. I doubt they see everyone that is sent to them.
Ever thing of starting off smaller though...if I'm not mistaken this isn't the first time you approached high up, and maybe "cold" too, without a primer. Perhaps finding someone more local to partner with like say an AVP, who then can enlist a VP...who can then usher you or your idea into the higher levels? Granted this happened long ago, but I suspect the same would hold true now.
11-20-2015, 02:34 PM
#1778
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: El Paso,
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11-20-2015, 02:44 PM
#1779
I was hoping you'd understand they difference between processes that can be automated (i.e., printing and stuffing envelopes) and those that must be done manually (i.e., verification).
11-20-2015, 02:47 PM
#1781
Well congratulations. Quite honestly, the email to them asking for the discount for active duty (nothing big, just same as seniors) happened to be that mythical one and only first contact email that didn't get a response - well didn't get a response from several separate email addresses.
Again, what's more likely? All eight or so addresses failed, didn't exist, were wrong, or ended up in spam folders, or they just didn't want to do anything about it? Given that all of them went to different servers...it sure looks like the latter.
And that was my first impression of dealing with AMA leadership. Not a single "Thanks for your suggestion...". Not a single response. And you wonder why I'm critical of AMA.
Again, what's more likely? All eight or so addresses failed, didn't exist, were wrong, or ended up in spam folders, or they just didn't want to do anything about it? Given that all of them went to different servers...it sure looks like the latter.
And that was my first impression of dealing with AMA leadership. Not a single "Thanks for your suggestion...". Not a single response. And you wonder why I'm critical of AMA.
11-20-2015, 02:52 PM
#1782
At a minimum, a cursory thank you is called for when someone takes the time to reach out with a suggestion, no doubt. That being said, there is a good chance they get a lot of e-mail and might actually have someone scanning them. I doubt they see everyone that is sent to them.
Ever thing of starting off smaller though...if I'm not mistaken this isn't the first time you approached high up, and maybe "cold" too, without a primer. Perhaps finding someone more local to partner with like say an AVP, who then can enlist a VP...who can then usher you or your idea into the higher levels? Granted this happened long ago, but I suspect the same would hold true now.
Ever thing of starting off smaller though...if I'm not mistaken this isn't the first time you approached high up, and maybe "cold" too, without a primer. Perhaps finding someone more local to partner with like say an AVP, who then can enlist a VP...who can then usher you or your idea into the higher levels? Granted this happened long ago, but I suspect the same would hold true now.
First, I don't buy the "lot of email" excuse. I got upwards of 200 a day in my last job, and managed to read and provide the professional courtesy of a response to suggestions. In the one I sent, I was actually still serving in that role, so I did them a favor by leading the email with the suggestion (on the first line), with background, context, and justification to follow.
It was my very first attempt at contact. Not one response, from any of them. Great first impression eh? I'm glad you mentioned that, because I also think I included all the district EVPs at the time. I seem to remember digging out a lot of email addresses.
11-20-2015, 02:53 PM
#1783
If it's not worth their time to provide even the professional courtesy of an acknowledgement, why would I want to continue wasting my time?
11-20-2015, 02:56 PM
#1784
Well, if you actually took the time to read and understand what the AMA published numerous times this year about the membership dues increase then you'd already know the club charter fee was going up as well. All they're doing now is giving you the opportunity to renew your club charter at the old rate before the new rate takes affect, just as they did with membership renewal. Perhaps less bellyaching and more attention to detail and the world (well, maybe just these forums) would be a better place.
11-20-2015, 03:03 PM
#1785
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Well, if you actually took the time to read and understand what the AMA published numerous times this year about the membership dues increase then you'd already know the club charter fee was going up as well. All they're doing now is giving you the opportunity to renew your club charter at the old rate before the new rate takes affect, just as they did with membership renewal. Perhaps less bellyaching and more attention to detail and the world (well, maybe just these forums) would be a better place.
Mike
11-20-2015, 03:06 PM
#1786
You continue to assume they received your email(s), but cannot verify. Now you're just salivating in the fact that you didn't receive a response so you can justify your on-going berating without actually doing the professional thing and following up with a phone call. Sounds like you're very determined to make the AMA active service military discount happen.
11-20-2015, 03:07 PM
#1787
11-20-2015, 06:28 PM
#1789
You continue to assume they received your email(s), but cannot verify. Now you're just salivating in the fact that you didn't receive a response so you can justify your on-going berating without actually doing the professional thing and following up with a phone call. Sounds like you're very determined to make the AMA active service military discount happen.
About two years later, in another position, I contacted the new AMA flying site guy. After hearing the local club was in danger of losing its field, I was offering to run the DoD administrative wickets to establish a field on my base, but could not use appropriated funds build it. We had a total population of about 14,000 and roughly 22,000 acres of unpopulated flat land free of trees. I was looking for AMA financial assistance to build the runway, and we'd find a way to do the rest with volunteer labor and recycled materials for sunshades etc.. He insisted that AMA would only consider it if it was open to all AMA members. When I explained that was impossible due to Anti-Terrorism / Force Protection requirements that everyone entering the installation had to have a DoD ID card, he said absolutely not.
Ironic that about six months later, the local club indeed lost it's field and the thirty odd members, all with DoD ID cards either active duty or government civilians, now had nowhere to fly. Not only did they not get a field free of any encroachment, obstacles, or noise concerns, the local club did indeed end up losing their field. In the end, because of their unwillingness to be flexible, not only did AMA lose a field, a club ceased to exist.
11-21-2015, 05:46 AM
#1790
You continue to assume they received your email(s), but cannot verify. Now you're just salivating in the fact that you didn't receive a response so you can justify your on-going berating without actually doing the professional thing and following up with a phone call. Sounds like you're very determined to make the AMA active service military discount happen.
Instead, how about the most simple explanation - they refused to go on record saying no to active duty discounts?
11-21-2015, 05:54 AM
#1791
Look. It's a simple as this. The entire group of them were on a variety of different email services (*.gmail, *.msn, etc.) and not a single email got kicked back for wrong address or does not exist, and not a single one of them answered. That's neither accidental nor the world's greatest coincidence. It's an answer.
About two years later, in another position, I contacted the new AMA flying site guy. After hearing the local club was in danger of losing its field, I was offering to run the DoD administrative wickets to establish a field on my base, but could not use appropriated funds build it. We had a total population of about 14,000 and roughly 22,000 acres of unpopulated flat land free of trees. I was looking for AMA financial assistance to build the runway, and we'd find a way to do the rest with volunteer labor and recycled materials for sunshades etc.. He insisted that AMA would only consider it if it was open to all AMA members. When I explained that was impossible due to Anti-Terrorism / Force Protection requirements that everyone entering the installation had to have a DoD ID card, he said absolutely not.
Ironic that about six months later, the local club indeed lost it's field and the thirty odd members, all with DoD ID cards either active duty or government civilians, now had nowhere to fly. Not only did they not get a field free of any encroachment, obstacles, or noise concerns, the local club did indeed end up losing their field. In the end, because of their unwillingness to be flexible, not only did AMA lose a field, a club ceased to exist.
About two years later, in another position, I contacted the new AMA flying site guy. After hearing the local club was in danger of losing its field, I was offering to run the DoD administrative wickets to establish a field on my base, but could not use appropriated funds build it. We had a total population of about 14,000 and roughly 22,000 acres of unpopulated flat land free of trees. I was looking for AMA financial assistance to build the runway, and we'd find a way to do the rest with volunteer labor and recycled materials for sunshades etc.. He insisted that AMA would only consider it if it was open to all AMA members. When I explained that was impossible due to Anti-Terrorism / Force Protection requirements that everyone entering the installation had to have a DoD ID card, he said absolutely not.
Ironic that about six months later, the local club indeed lost it's field and the thirty odd members, all with DoD ID cards either active duty or government civilians, now had nowhere to fly. Not only did they not get a field free of any encroachment, obstacles, or noise concerns, the local club did indeed end up losing their field. In the end, because of their unwillingness to be flexible, not only did AMA lose a field, a club ceased to exist.
So you're faulting the AMA for denying a request that would use AMA monies paid by all AMA members to create an exclusive field that few AMA members would have access to? How would you feel if the AMA was using your dues money to create exclusive fields that you could not use?
How much financial assistance did you request?
Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; 11-21-2015 at 05:58 AM.
11-21-2015, 06:22 AM
#1792
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 11-21-2015 at 06:24 AM.
11-21-2015, 06:22 AM
#1793
So you're faulting the AMA for denying a request that would use AMA monies paid by all AMA members to create an exclusive field that few AMA members would have access to? How would you feel if the AMA was using your dues money to create exclusive fields that you could not use?
How much financial assistance did you request?
How much financial assistance did you request?
Mathewson goes on to say that "I realize that sometimes there are legitimate reasons for clubs to have a policy like this. Sometimes it's the result of the property owner setting stipulations as to who can fly on the property."
So, the precedent is established that not permitting every AMA member to fly is not a barrier to a chartered club. As for the financial support, I don't remember the exact number, but it was for 500x50 by 6 inches thick of distressed granite. We'd do all the work. Answer was no unless open to all members.
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P.S. Oh, and in that particular area, there is a very high percentage of military / DoD civilians, so it would have been relatively few who did not have access. And after the local club lost its field (100% of 30 or so members had DoD ID cards of some sort), the next nearest flying field was 40 miles one way.
Last edited by franklin_m; 11-21-2015 at 06:27 AM. Reason: Added PS
11-21-2015, 06:24 AM
#1794
11-21-2015, 07:24 AM
#1795
Non argument - as AMA already allows clubs to turn away members / fliers. In fact on page 132 of the October MA, it says "I received an email from a member in upstate New York sharing a story about how a member of hi club was traveling throught the state and stopped to visit another AMA chartered club. He oped to visit for a few hours, get in a flight or two, and maybe make a few new friends. Unfortunately, this member was told that although he was an AMA member, he couldn't fly at this field."
Mathewson goes on to say that "I realize that sometimes there are legitimate reasons for clubs to have a policy like this. Sometimes it's the result of the property owner setting stipulations as to who can fly on the property."
There seem to be quite a few unknowing AMA members who assume that because they are an AMA member they can fly at any AMA chartered club field. This simply is not and has never been the case. Many club sites are on private property and nearly all clubs have specific flying requirements (neighbors, full-size traffic, etc.) I know of several club fields in public parks where the park system requires a permit in order to use the site.
So, the precedent is established that not permitting every AMA member to fly is not a barrier to a chartered club. As for the financial support, I don't remember the exact number,
How can you not possibly remember the exact number? Isn't it on the application you submitted? You did submit and application, right?
but it was for 500x50 by 6 inches thick of distressed granite. We'd do all the work. Answer was no unless open to all members.
------------
P.S. Oh, and in that particular area, there is a very high percentage of military / DoD civilians, so it would have been relatively few who did not have access. And after the local club lost its field (100% of 30 or so members had DoD ID cards of some sort), the next nearest flying field was 40 miles one way.
Mathewson goes on to say that "I realize that sometimes there are legitimate reasons for clubs to have a policy like this. Sometimes it's the result of the property owner setting stipulations as to who can fly on the property."
There seem to be quite a few unknowing AMA members who assume that because they are an AMA member they can fly at any AMA chartered club field. This simply is not and has never been the case. Many club sites are on private property and nearly all clubs have specific flying requirements (neighbors, full-size traffic, etc.) I know of several club fields in public parks where the park system requires a permit in order to use the site.
So, the precedent is established that not permitting every AMA member to fly is not a barrier to a chartered club. As for the financial support, I don't remember the exact number,
How can you not possibly remember the exact number? Isn't it on the application you submitted? You did submit and application, right?
but it was for 500x50 by 6 inches thick of distressed granite. We'd do all the work. Answer was no unless open to all members.
------------
P.S. Oh, and in that particular area, there is a very high percentage of military / DoD civilians, so it would have been relatively few who did not have access. And after the local club lost its field (100% of 30 or so members had DoD ID cards of some sort), the next nearest flying field was 40 miles one way.
11-21-2015, 07:26 AM
#1796
It's a great site. I've flown there many times. Thanks for your $$$$ contributions.
11-21-2015, 07:28 AM
#1797
If I call, you'd want a recording. If I sent a letter, you'd want a signature. If nothing happened with the letter, you'd want records of phone calls to everyone inside AMA who might have handled it.
There's a difference between doing things right and doing the right things. You're learning! A for the day.
Instead, how about the most simple explanation - they refused to go on record saying no to active duty discounts?
Technically correct, agreed!
There's a difference between doing things right and doing the right things. You're learning! A for the day.
Instead, how about the most simple explanation - they refused to go on record saying no to active duty discounts?
Technically correct, agreed!
11-21-2015, 07:32 AM
#1798
Had a member in my club that suggested we apply. I looked at the questions on the application and in two seconds I realized what they're trying to accomplish and that we would never qualify.
11-21-2015, 07:32 AM
#1799
Join Date: Dec 2003
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11-21-2015, 07:57 AM
#1800
Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon 
How would you feel if the AMA was using your dues money to create exclusive fields that you could not use?