Dues increase coming? 1 million spent on government relations.....
12-08-2015, 06:01 PM
#2076
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
As if your prattle weren't ridiculous enough, now this. AMA lobbied Congress for 336, a law intended to protect rights of AMA members only, disenfranchising the vast majority of model airplane enthusiasts. They now represent about 20% of modelers they had previously claimed to represent, and probably still claim when 'convenient,' as to maintain tax advantaged status as serving the public good. Does it really make any kind of sense to you that they did that just prior to instituting a new program to romance drone operators that operate in venues they have no experience with whatever in order to gain influence through member numbers?
I appreciate your comments, I just don't find much merit in them, but I'll skip the personal attacks and "prattle" label. I continue to wonder why a difference of opinion has to take on such a personal tone.
12-08-2015, 06:11 PM
#2077
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Why would the AMA Executive Council worry about extinction? They might lose their jobs? The AMA is NOT a business! They are not rated by their "shareholders" by how much $$ they have. In fact, the ONLY $$ they have is OUR money, they work for us, and it is expected that our $$ comes back to us in one form or another, so it makes no matter how many members we have. It is our job as modelers to share our passion with others in hopes they will find the same enjoyment that we have. You can't force that on people, only be a positive model for it and if they choose to join, great, if not, so be it.
If the AMA would focus on taking care of their membership, the membership will thrive, and so will the hobby, eliminating the need for desperate "land grabs" of members who really do not wish to be members. That is a losing proposition.
Interest in this hobby is spawned AT THE FLYING FIELD NOT AT AMA HEADQUARTERS.
Astro
If the AMA would focus on taking care of their membership, the membership will thrive, and so will the hobby, eliminating the need for desperate "land grabs" of members who really do not wish to be members. That is a losing proposition.
Interest in this hobby is spawned AT THE FLYING FIELD NOT AT AMA HEADQUARTERS.
Astro
Let's agree to disagree on the "business" definition, they absolutely fit the model absent the "profit" incentive, but whatever you want to label it as, have at it. I don't know where the desperate land grab comes from, are you talking about the PPP that was launched 10 years go. Are we really talking about a program from 10 years ago where the AMA wanted to try to grow their footprint in more metropolitan areas? Up until today, I haven't seen one person talk about land grabs. I'm not sure how taking care of current membership will ensure that the current membership thrives, as well as the hobby. Discounts and increased handouts to clubs isn't the answer.
I would say they continue to service the needs of the members, as well as looking for ways to retain and incourage new membership. The proof of that is in the MA magazine every month, as well as the financial records published once a year. Clearly, they do not meet every members needs. They never have, never will, and never could.
Edit/addition: Dawned on me to add that the interest in this hobby comes from many places, not just "the field". You might also take a look at the profile of the folks on the EC, as well as the current VPs. Almost to a tee, they all have deep roots in this hobby, and aviation in some instances as well. I think you might be shortchanging the people there, based on the fact that they are there...and are in "executive" positions. Just a thought.
Last edited by porcia83; 12-08-2015 at 06:16 PM.
12-08-2015, 06:13 PM
#2078
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Aguanga,
CA
Posts: 1,779
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12-08-2015, 06:31 PM
#2080
Why would the AMA Executive Council worry about extinction? They might lose their jobs? The AMA is NOT a business! They are not rated by their "shareholders" by how much $$ they have. In fact, the ONLY $$ they have is OUR money, they work for us, and it is expected that our $$ comes back to us in one form or another, so it makes no matter how many members we have. It is our job as modelers to share our passion with others in hopes they will find the same enjoyment that we have. You can't force that on people, only be a positive model for it and if they choose to join, great, if not, so be it.
If the AMA would focus on taking care of their membership, the membership will thrive, and so will the hobby, eliminating the need for desperate "land grabs" of members who really do not wish to be members. That is a losing proposition.
Interest in this hobby is spawned AT THE FLYING FIELD NOT AT AMA HEADQUARTERS.
Astro
If the AMA would focus on taking care of their membership, the membership will thrive, and so will the hobby, eliminating the need for desperate "land grabs" of members who really do not wish to be members. That is a losing proposition.
Interest in this hobby is spawned AT THE FLYING FIELD NOT AT AMA HEADQUARTERS.
Astro
Astro , let me tell ya buddy , If I was inclined to use custom signatures , I'd use your "Interest in the hobby is spawned AT THE FLYING FIELD NOT AT AMA HEADQUARTERS" as my sig proudly . ( of course , it could be said that the LHS figures prominently in generating interest as well , nice looking planes in LHS' windows are like magnets to some folks) You hit it out of the park with that one ! If the interest isn't there , and in my belief it's not , no amount of AMA programs are gonna make park pilots out of today's X box generation . Yes , as porcia stated earlier , I'll bet they DID look at all the parkies Horizon and Hobbico were selling and had visions of dollar $igns dancing in their heads , but as I said earlier , my experience is that it's all my fellow flyers and myself that are buying all the parkies they saw being sold , as a "lazy flying" alternative to dragging the big stuff to the field when it's only a quick few flights on the afternoon's flight plan . Cities don't come much more populated than Boston . We have quite a lot of decent park space both of the municipal and schoolyard variety . the most I ever see run in the parks are the kinda cool RC dune buggies with the 2 stroke weedwacker looking engines , and no flying things outside of the very occasional multicopter being flown via video link . No parkies or bigger are ever seen . We do , thankfully , have a bunch of "regular" model plane clubs , both of the RC and CL variety , and it's there that you'll find all the parkies being flown by all us old farts , and not by some vast untapped horde of new park flying people all clamoring to give the AMA $30 a year
Last edited by init4fun; 12-08-2015 at 06:47 PM. Reason: darned typos
12-08-2015, 06:41 PM
#2082
You don't need my help in order to do that, just use common sense and go about your business with a critical eye.
12-08-2015, 06:43 PM
#2083
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: El Paso,
TX
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12-08-2015, 06:50 PM
#2084
I know it's popular with some to discount the whole insurance thing, ie it's useless because it's secondary to H/O insurance (and the always favorite it doesn't matter anyway because all insurance companies do is deny claim), but once again, there are plenty of people who don't have H/O or even renters insurance,
Originally Posted by porcia83
That they tried to craft another means of entry into the AMA for some, and went with a scaled down version of the full membership is being touted as a complete failure.
Originally Posted by porcia83
Had they taken no steps to address those that wanted this, and at the same time didn't look for additional ways of building membership, they would again be castigated for not doing something.
Regards,
Astro
12-08-2015, 06:52 PM
#2085
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
There is a big difference between a healthy debate, a difference of opinion, challenging an assertion, asking someone to validate what they claim to be fact...and then what happens when you present a different viewpoint. I haven't attacked anyone here personally, nor have a ganged up with others to call other members trolls, lawn ornaments etc. In fact there are a few here I've actually sent PM's to to say chill out with that stuff etc. Take a look at the comments between Init and I over the past day or two...see any name calling etc there? We agree on some stuff, not on others. I have no concerns or issues with having my comments challenged, but you and I both know there is a personal animus that is present in this and other threads, for no other reason that a difference of opinion. Just a disappointing thing, that's all. The easy thing to do would be to note post (don't get your hopes up 
) but it tends to happen regardless.
) but it tends to happen regardless.
12-08-2015, 07:01 PM
#2086
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
Anyone who takes a drive through their regional parks, vacant lots, etc. on a weekend and is truly interested in doing some "Open Air Market Analysis" would be able to objectively assess how Bullish this market was / is for future AMA draftees.
You don't need my help in order to do that, just use common sense and go about your business with a critical eye.
You don't need my help in order to do that, just use common sense and go about your business with a critical eye.
12-08-2015, 07:01 PM
#2087
There is a big difference between a healthy debate, a difference of opinion, challenging an assertion, asking someone to validate what they claim to be fact...and then what happens when you present a different viewpoint. I haven't attacked anyone here personally, nor have a ganged up with others to call other members trolls, lawn ornaments etc. In fact there are a few here I've actually sent PM's to to say chill out with that stuff etc. Take a look at the comments between Init and I over the past day or two...see any name calling etc there? We agree on some stuff, not on others. I have no concerns or issues with having my comments challenged, but you and I both know there is a personal animus that is present in this and other threads, for no other reason that a difference of opinion. Just a disappointing thing, that's all. The easy thing to do would be to note post (don't get your hopes up ) but it tends to happen regardless.
) but it tends to happen regardless.Astro
12-08-2015, 07:10 PM
#2088
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
How about interest continues at the field, and skills are honed at the field...etc etc (or perhaps the addiction is intensified) Interest and good ideas can come from anywhere, even in Muncie from people who have been in the hobby 30-40-50 years. I know it's popular to blame, and leaders are always an easy target. The AVP and VP spots are voluntary and elected in that order, as well as the EC positions. The membership elects them, and have the ability to remove them as well.
12-08-2015, 07:11 PM
#2089
There is a big difference between a healthy debate, a difference of opinion, challenging an assertion, asking someone to validate what they claim to be fact...and then what happens when you present a different viewpoint. I haven't attacked anyone here personally, nor have a ganged up with others to call other members trolls, lawn ornaments etc. In fact there are a few here I've actually sent PM's to to say chill out with that stuff etc. Take a look at the comments between Init and I over the past day or two...see any name calling etc there? We agree on some stuff, not on others. I have no concerns or issues with having my comments challenged, but you and I both know there is a personal animus that is present in this and other threads, for no other reason that a difference of opinion. Just a disappointing thing, that's all. The easy thing to do would be to note post (don't get your hopes up ) but it tends to happen regardless.
) but it tends to happen regardless. I will 100% stand with "attack the subject , and not the presenter of the subject" ! I try my darnedest to not take things personal cause then I DO lash out , and that ain't the way to debate different viewpoints . It comes to a point of diminished info sharing when it becomes personal and really guys , I ain't here to make any ememies , or show anyone how smart I am , just to have conversations with like minded folks into model planes . I truly would fly with each and every one of you , even guys who I have "gotten into it" with , cause then even those who disagree with me on line would see that I'm not as bad as my opinions sometimes make me seem to them in the kinda flat 2 dimensional world that these posts occupy . Remember , it's our love of model planes , and not any love of cannibalizing the fellow posters , that are our reason for being here .
12-08-2015, 07:17 PM
#2091
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
I will 100% stand with "attack the subject , and not the presenter of the subject" ! I try my darnedest to not take things personal cause then I DO lash out , and that ain't the way to debate different viewpoints . It comes to a point of diminished info sharing when it becomes personal and really guys , I ain't here to make any ememies , or show anyone how smart I am , just to have conversations with like minded folks into model planes . I truly would fly with each and every one of you , even guys who I have "gotten into it" with , cause then even those who disagree with me on line would see that I'm not as bad as my opinions sometimes make me seem to them in the kinda flat 2 dimensional world that these posts occupy . Remember , it's our love of model planes , and not any love of cannibalizing the fellow posters , that are our reason for being here .
Na...I've had my fill of polls!
12-08-2015, 07:26 PM
#2093
Gotta admit , I was really proud of RC Ken not killing my sorta controversial poll about the OBAP . Race is always a bucket of gas waiting for a lit match , but that thread really wasn't the total flamefest I had expected it to be . It really wasn't , ya know , about kicking the hornet's nest , I really do believe what I posted there . But , as you say , I'm kinda "all polled out" for a while , so I guess I'll just get back to hatin on the drones the old fashioned way .... Kidding ! , Just Kidding .... Sorta .... 
12-08-2015, 07:34 PM
#2094
I will freely admit to having flung mud (and poop) with the best of em , and I don't see any of my attack posts as my shining moments . It ain't easy holding it back when ya feel your being pushed and RC Ken has helped a lot with a perspective of how to take the insults without responding in kind . Still at times I'd like to reach through the screen and administer a well deserved dope slap , but then I try to remember it's really my post their attacking cause they really don't know one thing about who I am beyond the posts they see and take issue with ... Happy Flying guys !
12-08-2015, 07:49 PM
#2095
Banned
My Feedback: (8)
You asked the first question, and I answered it with more than a one or two word answer. It prompted the second question, and as you've shown in the past there is no such thing as a simple answer with you (as evidenced by this most recent comment). There would have been no "o/k thanks" if I said yes or no, it would only have lead to another debate at which time you would have disagreed no matter what I said. Yes, perhaps a WAG or just IMO, but I base that on the multitude of exchanges we have had in the past. Lets agree to disagree on virtually everything except that we enjoy RC, and if we find other commonalities, we'll rejoice accordingly.
12-08-2015, 08:00 PM
#2096
It prompted the second question,
and as you've shown in the past there is no such thing as a simple answer with you (as evidenced by this most recent comment).
There would have been no "o/k thanks" if I said yes or no, it would only have lead to another debate at which time you would have disagreed no matter what I said.
Just for clarification; did you just deny that you are just as guilty as anybody else here of slinging mud? (a simple yes or no will suffice)
Regards,
Astro
12-08-2015, 08:14 PM
#2097
12-08-2015, 08:24 PM
#2099
It was an email from me to the District III VP. I let him know this was the second request, the first made back around 2006, where nothing came of it. His response, in which he copied Dave M, he said that the idea had merit, but is not doable at this time. He went on to indicate that despite the fee increase, he feels the dues are reasonable even for military. It would not go to the board.
As for channeling my effort. As a former senior officer, I was concerned with the welfare of the troops, especially the young families making far less than many seniors. As a vet, I suppose I could have advocated for a discount for vets, but I see supporting the young families with a slight financial incentive to join as the greater need. It must not have been a terrible idea, as not too long ago the flying fields column mentioned trying to establish relationships with military Morale, Welfare, & Recreation programs -- which are targeted at junior personnel primarily - ironically the same group for which I was seeking to help become members via a small discount. One would think those two aligned.
As you said, the AMA has the power to decide and they did...it was vetoed at the district VP level. My interest is seeking out organizations that are interested in providing some tangible incentive for our young service men and women and their families to participate. I'll continue to advocate for the active duty folks. That's where I'll put my energy. If you want to promote fun and science or youth stuff, more power to you. It's just not my interest.
As for channeling my effort. As a former senior officer, I was concerned with the welfare of the troops, especially the young families making far less than many seniors. As a vet, I suppose I could have advocated for a discount for vets, but I see supporting the young families with a slight financial incentive to join as the greater need. It must not have been a terrible idea, as not too long ago the flying fields column mentioned trying to establish relationships with military Morale, Welfare, & Recreation programs -- which are targeted at junior personnel primarily - ironically the same group for which I was seeking to help become members via a small discount. One would think those two aligned.
As you said, the AMA has the power to decide and they did...it was vetoed at the district VP level. My interest is seeking out organizations that are interested in providing some tangible incentive for our young service men and women and their families to participate. I'll continue to advocate for the active duty folks. That's where I'll put my energy. If you want to promote fun and science or youth stuff, more power to you. It's just not my interest.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. If you're truly that concerned then why not prove it to the AMA that it's a worthy cause. Start your own non-profit organization to raise money for AMA memberships those on active duty. You can accept donations and disperse them yourself. I don't think a lot of folks would hesitate to donate $10 for a worthy cause to support our troops. I know I'd gladly donate to you cause. I already donate $$$ to the wounded warrior project.